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RAFontenot2

Tent Assignment Problems

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There are some kids like "Bobby" in our troop, I used to be one of them myself :(

 

Either he'll grow out of it, or the other scouts will get used to it. My advice? Give him time.

 

As for the tent problem, I agree with Acco in that the scouts should work it out by themselves. Who knows, maybe someone will become friends with "Bobby". All I know is, don't have the kids take turns tolerating Bobby...that only makes the kids more apprehensive towards him, and makes Bobby feel less like a person, and more like an annoying thing to be tolerated, instead of an individual.

 

Remember, ADHD kids have feelings too. Beleive me, I should know ;)

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My son was a "Bobby", not due to ADHD but due to an annoying habit of precise, nitpicking, seems-like-he-knows-it-all habit of correcting other people (Asperger's, anyone?). The fact that he was usually right when he dug in and insisted on winning arguments did not endear him to his troopmates, nor his merit badge counselors, nor sister and brother, nor his public school teachers....

 

One of his former scoutmaster's handled him really well and gave every evidence of really liking him and enjoying his company, while not allowing him to be disrespectful. My kid would do anything with or for him. Another treated him as one step short of a juvenile delinquent. My kid would barely give that man the time of day, and still shudders at the thought of being anywhere near him.

 

He's 15 now and although he's still himself, his tact is catching up with his precision and he's having fewer and fewer problems. Partly, it's easier for people to accept his opinion as potentially valid as he gets taller.

 

Act like you like the kid. Look for the good in him. If you have something nice to say about him, say it to another adult and make sure he hears it.

Once he knows you are looking for the good, he'll show you more and more of it. And when you DO have something negative to say, he'll be able to take it from you, since he knows you like him.

 

Teach these principles to your most mature scout, too, and your SPL/ASPL. You'll be doing them a favor too as these principles work for all kinds of people.

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>>Teach these principles to your most mature scout, too, and your SPL/ASPL. You'll be doing them a favor too as these principles work for all kinds of people.

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I know this sounds a little flip, but how about getting some more tents? My son, who has ADHD,does much better with smaller groups. One or two other scouts as opposed to larger groups. 5 boys in a tent sounds like a lot to me. Just my $0.02 worth.

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OOPS! I just re read your post and realized its 5 boys SHARING 2 tents. My mistake. As Emily Litella used to say..... Oh, nevermind.

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Does Bobby want to tent with the other scouts? Maybe this is just his way of letting you know he would prefer a single tent or have a parent come along. Finding out what Bobby wants has to be part and parcel of letting the scouts resolve this issue for themselves. Otherwise, it will be four scouts deciding and Bobby sitting off by himself, again.

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can i paraphrase what i think i am hearing?

because of some bad experiences i had in scouts when i was young,i dove in head first in volunteering at district and council level,to see if paradigm i grew up with was still appropriate for patrols and troops.would it be fair to say,with the "safey" concern for youth today,in our global environment;that "US" based Scouting prefers adults to be silent and let kids direct the action?

I have some criticisms of that method of leadership,

having come from municipal job and Guards structure,where initiative has been mostly rewarded.

1)what i am close to seeing is linkage of "kelly" services option for kids,like an employment service,run like a busy local restaurant.many people come in and out,maybe those with chevrons like a captain or colonel.all while valuing more specific skills necessary to the running of any organization well.could that be apositive end goal?

2)is everyone saying,the meeting of adults and youth in "american" Boy Scouts is more like the NASA game we played in Group Communications class in college?

Are we valuing just survival,or are we all beyond establishing "safety" in a new age to have many separate troops and patrols function exchanging information to the betterment of a greater whole,like other groups and some nations cooperate?

3)my guard boss met with others running similar departments on a night just before drill.that monthly meeting made most tasks and overall unit goals go off seamlessly,like a pod of dolphins or similarly highly equiped and coordinated creatures cooperating as one vast organism(like a human cell,operating as a city,with all services going well and more towards being highly coordinated)? am i missing anything in this hypothetical scenario?

4)i mean if kids had fought like when i was at Basic Training for AF;if they fought about having different coats,(he has mine!!)the DI onsite would just have ordered both of them to exchange coats with each other,then inform their specific dorms as to a number change on the coats their charges own.effectively ending the conflict,and banishing wining,as a vocal pursuit.

5)if a former employer of mine tied into a county rescue squad(much like volunteer firemen may be)having achieved many competencies in one classification successfully,can i approach him to form more of Scouts "Lite" Toastmasters kind of organizational structure;with empowered kids and adults sharing "CQ"(being gopher/runner)to those whom don't quite "get it";like helping a "baby flight"at Basic training when i would have been there several weeks?i'm pushing the definition of veteran vs.rookie as in what cops use and professional sports teams.does anyone specifically know if a mix which can be controlled locally by needs and rules,is approved by BSA National,not unlike a Union National Office telling many specific councils and locals which rules they will follow? i went to one troop where Eagle Scouts should have had their photo albums all codified as presentable means of making an Eagle project,but a new shift in einthusiams energies.i had never seen that before.several kids highlighted their travels in photo album form to me.i didn't help with much in way of activity at that troop.it was nearby to where my parent's house was.and helped me fill in gaps as to what kinds of activities my son might encounter going for Eagle.is Scouting today the guy watching the weekend SuperBowl,and the active adults more like the football "widow",being expected to be off to the sidelines? some disputes seem silly and a waste of energy.i made the comparison to a friend of a guard base of 1000 people having 50 "troops" of 20 people each.and none of them would communicate on levels of leadership,and task specific to reinforce the whole.the whole group could never deploy,thus muting all the substance of their training.is that what many are asserting here?

thank you,

dbg.

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EagleDad 2

 

"would it be fair to say,with the "safey" concern for youth today,in our global environment;that "US" based Scouting prefers adults to be silent and let kids direct the action?"

 

NO

 

 

is Scouting today the guy watching the weekend SuperBowl,and the active adults more like the football "widow",being expected to be off to the sidelines?

 

NO

 

 

And with those two premises being nullified We have pretty much destroyed your entire argument. A true conclusion cannot be based on false premises.

 

You are trying too hard. You cannot base your summation of an entire program over one tenting situation, plus you are making this more cerebral than is needed.

 

These are kids, you need to understand how kids think and I'm not sure you do.

 

Kids form judgements very quickly about others. everyone they meet falls into three categories.

1) People they like

2) People they don't like

3) People they think don't like them

 

Very few kids this age understand, or have every been explained, compromise or second chances.

 

This case requires adult intervention not only for the welfare of the boy being played as odd-man-out but to help the others develop more mature characteristics.

 

The Scout Law says that a Scout is "Friendly Courteous, Kind". Are these scouts doing their best to reflect those characteristics? Is the 5th Scout? What about helpful, and obedient?

 

Is the Patrol Leader being "Brave and Trustworthy" and standing up for everyone he leads, not just the ones he likes?

 

Drop the high brow examinations of the program and the leadeship methods on this one dad and think like a kid thinks. RAF needs to talk to them like a mentor about the promise they made themselves in the Scout Law, and ask each how they can live the Law better when it comes to this situation.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

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Bob White stated:

 

Kids form judgements very quickly about others. everyone they meet falls into three categories.

1) People they like

2) People they don't like

3) People they think don't like them

 

I agree with him on this topic. I'd also like to add that although a boy may choose 1, 2, or 3 about someone now, his judgement may change next week, the next day or in 15 minutes!

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First and foremost, education. BSA has a class that deal with special needs scouts. All leaders should be required to take it and practice it. The information should be communicate to all scouts as to inform them and not to ridicule the special needs scout. Mixed in with the message should be the Scout Laws and Oath ringing loud and clear; however, treating the scout differently should not be tolerated. Involve the scout's parents to help. They are the best folks to know their son.

 

How do I know? My son is borderline ADD. Of the 50 boys in our troop 3 are severely ADHD (one is an Eagle Scout and our troop guide ... and doing a great job I might add :) ), another 2 are on ritalin or the likes, and 1 is hyperactive. They all work with these boys as though the boys are no different then they are! That is the way it should be. Although, from time to time it will be difficult, that is when the special needs scout's parent can assist.

 

1hour

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This isn't directly on topic, but I wanted to express some indirectly related thoughts that don't really warrant a separate thread.

 

This thread is somewhat interesting to me. There is a kid in my home troop that is, depending on who you ask and when (I think part of this is from the parents not being entirely forward about it) ADD, ADHD, or autistic. I have only attended one troop meeting since I knew of this. It didn't take long to spot the kid, even though I didn't know which one he was. He never really caused any real problem, though he was somewhat less than totally helpful, but then that is a common problem with many new Scouts. The greatest problem was he just couldn't sit still, couldn't keep focused on the task at hand, and would ask questions about everything (including some questions someone else had just asked). Ultimately all of this was relatively easily managed in a regular meeting setting, especially since he knew one of his parents was their. (He or she, never could figure out which one was his parent, just stayed in the back, kept out of the way, but was close by should they be needed. I think that was probably a healthy level of involvement.)

 

However, despite the fact that this wasn't really a problem that night, apparently there have been some real problems on other nights. I am somewhat worried about this. I know I am not equipped in any way shape or form for dealing with that kind of thing. None of my close friends had these sorts of problems so I have no experience dealing with it there. In school most of my classes had relatively few problems with this due to the types of classes I took. So I really don't have any personal experience dealing with this. I certainly don't have any training either. I don't even know where to begin to look, should I need to do so. I also know I don't work well with those who are disruptive, who don't pay attention, or who otherwise tax my patience. It is for that reason that I avoid working with younger kids. I don't even offer to babysit my own niece and nephew, who are in the same town I go to school in (one is second grader, the other kindergarten.)

 

I know other leaders have similar concerns. I went to SM/ASM position specific training this weekend. One leader asked a question about what to do to find more information about those issues. Other leaders quickly responded that they had similar questions, or had needed that information in the past. Unfortunately, the trainers said they didn't really know quite what was available. They suggested contacting the local council's district director who handles Scout units for those with disabilities. Another ASM in attendance suggested some web resources with information on teaching strategies for use with ADD/ADHD kids. No one really had a good solid answer.

 

The answers and suggestions provided here seem good. It seems to me that more is needed. More readily available materials or training from BSA could be helpful. If there are such resources, they don't seem to be very well known. I know I have never seen any mention of a training for such things being conducted in either of the two councils I have interacted with.

 

Thank you all for your time and thoughts. I will try to keep some of the suggestions in mind next time I am faced with a similar situation.

 

Oh, and eagledad2, I couldn't make any sense of your post at all. I really don't know what that had to do with this topic, or any other topic. People may not have agreed with a certain poster who's name sounded like a certain round, rolling object, but you could normally figure out what he was saying even if you couldn't figure out why. On the other hand, I can't even figure out what you are saying. Sorry, but a bit a clarification might be helpful in the future. Also, sentences, capitalization, and punctuation are nice. (None of us are perfect. I know I make lots of grammar and spelling mistakes. Though we should all be striving to improve.)

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RAF,

Pardon my simplicity, but have you talked with "Bobby's" Parents? They work with him every day and should know his nuiances and how to deal with them.

 

It seems like every case is different, but the kids I've worked with in school and scouts all have their "querky" habits. (And they don't have to have "a label" to be that way!) You don't have to coddle them and "do it their way" all the time, they do understand the rules and what's expected. They just may not follow through like expected all the time.

 

It also seems like this is a good lesson for the other boys to learn how to "get along" and make adjustments too. Not everyone on this earth is perfect. Different scenerio but in our troop, when the older guys are working with the younger ones, sure they get frustrated and tired. But they also know that is their "job." But we also give them "time off" to break away and be in their own patrols too. For instance, we do a XX mile hike up as a group. The older boys are training and working with the younger ones the most of the time. But then the older boys will continue hiking and the younger ones are left in camp to work on rank, etc.

 

I'm thinking the same could be done in your case. Tell the other boys that they all need to work together. But there will be times when they can "relax" too. (Thinking that working with the ADHD kid is a "on all the time" job.)

 

Giving the group direction and let them rise to the occasion! They might surprise you!

 

 

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I saw this in our local paper and I thought I'd pass along the link. Its about a Scout that has Aspergers syndrome and made Eagle Scout. He made a video about his condition as his eagle project.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/texasliving/stories/040904dnlivscout.596db.html

 

I know in our own troop we had a few scouts with problems and required that the dad monitor their sons on campouts by staying in the patrol campsite during the day.

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