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dan

First Class First Year

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"Does poor attendance at Troop meetings indicate the Scouts loyality to the Troop?"

 

No, more likely it indicates boring troop meetings or that the scout has a life that includes multiple interests (something that we encourage scouts to have). The requirement says that Scout spirit is how the scout lives the values of scouting in his everday day life. It does NOT say "how he lives the values while at troop meetings only".

 

Scouting is not meant to be a boys entire life. it is meant to support the positive skills and character he will use in his life. You cannot gig a scout on advancement for having a full life or being able to make choices. If the troop meetings and activities are not the most fun thing a boy can choose to do then that's your problem not his.

 

 

Also, I recently went back & checked the records of our last 7 Eagles and none of them were 1st Class in their 1st year.

 

SO WHAT?

 

The Eagle scout rank is not the goal or purpose of scouting. The only advancement goal mentioned in the Scout Handbook and other BSA resources is First Class near the first year. Why? because you can't teach them character, citizenship, and fitness if you don't keep them in the troop. So let's say you had 7 eagles in 5 years. How many boys have quit the troop in the last 5 years? How many of them never made it to First Class?

 

Would you rather have 30 scouts all First Class to Life, or 12 scouts with 7 Eagles.

 

The Eagle Scout Rank is a personal accomplishment for the scout. It is not a measurement of the quality of the troop.

 

First Class Emphasis is a program element of scouting, it is a job assignment for Assistant Scoutmaster, it is tied to the Patrol Method and gives function to the junior leadership position of Troop Guide, it is the ONLY rank that is a prerequisite for participating in high adventure activities and it strongly effects membership retention. Tenderfoot to First Class is where we lay the foundation for all three aims of the scouting program. First Class is important to the success of the Troop and Patrol program.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

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So what you are saying is Scouting isn't part of a Scouts everyday life?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Read it again but slower Ed. I said "The requirement says that Scout spirit is how the scout lives the values of scouting in his everday day life. It does NOT say "how he lives the values while at troop meetings only".

 

I also said there are more things in a scouts life than troop meetings and that if the scouts regularly find other activities more fun to go to than troop meetings then that is your problem not theirs.

 

Bob White

 

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Bob,

You didn't answer my question and I know what the requirement says.

 

For the most part, I only see the Scouts in my Troop at Troop meetings & other Troop activities. My gauge of how they live the Scout Oath & Law in their everyday life is what I see at Troop meetings & Troop activities.

 

So I will ask again, so what you are saying is Scouting isn't part of a Scouts everyday life?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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ED, read what I posted! I said you cannot judge a boys entire life by his attendance at troop meetings. There is more to who they are than that 90minutes a week.

 

I realize you only see them at troop meetings. Consider talking to them when they are there. Learn about their lives. What are their interests, what are their favorite subjects in school, what else are they involved in? Where else do they practice leadership? Are they involved at church. What do they do to keep physically fit?

 

If you knew what their life was like away from the troop meetings you would learn if they lived their lives by the Oath and Law.

 

So NO Ed, I never said Scouting was not part of their every day life. I said Troop meetings are a very small part of their every day life. You as the SM need to take an interest in the rest of their week and understand who these boys are.

 

Bob White

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Ed and Bob,

 

It's always a treat to see you guys converse. If the program at our Troop is successful, and currently it's doing well, I expect the Scouts to be in attendance. If they aren't, it certainly is impossible for the youth Troop leaders to perform their responsibilities. I get to know the Scouts and their families, and they inform me of upcoming conflicts and we work around them. A sports season or other temporary program, is understandable and understood. There are a lot of variables for the Scout Spirit requirement, and can be very flexible per Scout.

I will tell you that one of our younger Scouts just came back to the Troop after taking the month of August off. He gave me a hug at the beginning of the meeting. The meeting went great. And upon leaving at the end of the meeting, he told me he probably wouldn't be back, and that he had football and karate on meeting nights. I talked to his Mom who was equally surprised. She said that she would talk with him (she's divorced). I don't know if anything happened that night, but I don't look for him to come back. Sometimes you just do your best and let the chips fall where they may.

 

sst3rd

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I'm glad we entertain you sst3rd:)

 

You raise a good point, in that the requirements are flexible. But I think variable might be a better word. In that the requirement is the same for each scout. They must each provide evidence of living the values of scouting in everyday life, but those values can be displayed in many different ways.

 

I also agree with OGE (in a way) that a scout with a leadership role is another story. I had a scout who was a patrol leader that missed almost every meeting for months due to sports. He was a terrific young man, active in school and community. When he came up for advancement I signed his scout spirit because he displayed the scouting characteristic however I did not sign his leadership requirement because he did not do his job and he knew it. So attendance played no role in whether or not he had the spirit of scouting. I know young people who are not even scouts whose behavior reflects the values of scouting.

 

On the other hand I had a scout who was an SPL during wrestling season. He missed several troop meetings but phoned me frequently to share his troop meeting plans and kept in constant touch with his assistant SPL who ran the troop meetings. Things ran very smoothly in his absence but it was very clear he was in control. I signed his leadership requirement despite his absenteeism because he fullfilled the requirement. He actively served in his role as SPL.

 

You can be a good scout and be involved in other activities. The two need not be mutually exclusive. You need to look at each scout individually. Making attendance rules that don't exist in scouting, blinds leaders to the individuality of the boy and relieves the leader of the responsibility of knowing the boy. Instead the rule makes the decision regardless of the needs and characteristics of the boy.

The more artificial rules the leaders make the less leadership they actually provide.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Ed,

If you require a certain percentage of attendance at all meetings and events, how come your boys aren't making First Class in a year? Seems like a boy that active, would make First Class quickly, unless the swimming requirement held him up.

 

 

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sctmom,

Never said I have attendance requirements for Troop meetings. I do expect the Scouts to be at all Troop meetings unless they have a good excuse. I also expect my SPL, ASPL, etc. to have excellent aqttendance records. Setting the example, you know.

 

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Ed,

 

I understand Sctmom's confusion, back on July 22 you posted

 

"...As far as the Scouts who don't have a position, I expect them to be at at least 75% of the Troop meetings and outings. To me, this goes hand in hand with Scout Spirit & being active...."

 

I also thought that was an attendance requirement. Upon closer review I see that you "expect" them to be at 75% of the meetings and activities, not require them.

 

So, that begs the question if a scout is in "the band" and misses meetings and activities during the fall because he is playing at football games, is he dropped from the troop or if he tells you he will be back after band season, will he still be a member of the troop in December?

 

Funny how the same words mean different things to different people.

 

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Speaking of words meaning different things to different people...

 

Bob White,

 

You said - "When he came up for advancement I signed his scout spirit because he displayed the scouting characteristic however I did not sign his leadership requirement because he did not do his job and he knew it."

 

I thought that you stated in previous threads that a Scout met the requirement for his leadership position so long as he remained in the said position for six months. Or, in other words, a SM could not refuse to sign off on a leadership position, unless the Scout was removed from the position prior to the six-month requirement. Did I miss something? Did you say something other than what I am stating here? Has something changed?

 

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That wasn't me Rooster. I have always said that the requirement DOES NOT say hold an office..It says ACTIVELY SERVE. The scout needs to fullfill the duties of the office to qualify.

bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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OGE,

Yes he still be a member of the Troop. In fact, he will be a member of the Troop until it is time to recharter.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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I also was thinking what Rooster said about Bob White and the position of leadership. At least I'm not the only confused person out here in computer land today.

 

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