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shortridge

Obama not speaking in person at Jambo

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I stand corrected CP.

 

How does all this stand with what Mrs. Clinton said when she shreiked,"We have a right to debate......!"

 

She said not to question her patriotism.

 

So do children lose their rights once they don the BSA uniform?

 

While I would agree the Adults who do not like the President should have remained quiet, I don't know if I would demand that the boys not express their opinion. According to some of you that would make me a bad Scouter. I think it's best to let them have their say, sit down and shut up and listen in that order.

 

A lot of times I have been the hard nose on here for complaining about wearing flip flops to an Eagle Court of honor, earings with a uniform(I must have missed it on the inspection sheet) and other stuff that has pinned my conduct meter. I even got reported to the Scout Exec once for complaing that a cub was touching the magician and his things during his act at a B&G dinner.

 

What happened to live and let live with you people?

 

If this was the All hated Bush would you all be shocked and upset. Please.

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uz2

You seemed to have missed the point, the booing was an unscoutlike and disrespectful response to the office of the President first and foremost. This behavior runs contrary to what all scouters should be teaching their youth about being good citizens. And yes I would demand the same respect for any President, Bush included. IMHO your condoning this behavior does make you a bad or irresponsible scouter, not a bad person, since it runs contrary to the scout oath and law.

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I think that it is actually my role as an adult leader to be apolitical in my dealing with Scouts. I should do my best to impart upon them the importance of good citizenship and the values of our freedoms. I am quite certain that I can answer all their questions concerning the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of the Federal government and the other more local governmental roles without allowing any of my personal biases to enter the equation.

 

Our Troop was recently visited by a member of Congress. I did not care what his politics were while he was addressing the next generation of voters. The Congressman stayed non-partisan during his time with the Scouts and I think all went well. He understood the level the Scouts were on and seemed to understand that he was not there to garner votes, but rather to enlighten a future generation.

 

Politicization of these young men should occur in the home and we all know it does. My role is to remind them through actions and deed that the Office is due respect not necessarily the incumbent. I do that with my own children. We always refer to the president as President _________ and other elected officials by the title of their office. I expect the same respect from my children of their teachers, religious leader, and even Scout leaders.

 

It seems to me that the entire Scouting program would be better delivered if we allowed the parents to do the actual rearing and educating of the Scouts while we are there to step in and provide a level mentoring role. Supporting the parents in this way does not require me to espouse the parents political, religious, or other social opinions.

 

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Nachamawat, very well said.

 

Sex, religion and politics need to be left to the home. Our role in scouting is to support what is taught at home by pointing out the importance of those things in a scout's life without telling him "what" to think or do.

 

Having been at Jambo in 2005 and 2010 and seeing the difference in security preparations, I still stand by my original statement. It is my sincere wish that the BSA never, ever invite a POTUS to the Jamboree. It is more hassle than it is worth and it keeps the political sniping down.

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Just a couple of points to make:

 

1) I'm sure the President could have appeared on "The View" anytime he asked. It didn't have to be the day that he was asked to speak at the Jamboree.

2) It's scary to me that there would be a single security concern for the President at the Boy Scout Jamboree, other than the travel to and from the Jamboree.

3) I didn't vote for Obama and I disagree with most of his actions (including choosing not to speak in person or at the least live), but had I been there, I would have shushed the boys around me that were booing. As others have said, A scout is courteous. The only appropriate public booing is at Renaissance fairs and professional wrestling matches.

 

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Perdidochas,

 

you seemed surprised there would be a security concern for the president among all those courteous Boy Scouts that booed his taped performance and the Scouters that allowed them to boo. I am not surprised. There should be an ever vigilant security concern surrounding this and every president. I have friends who were in the Gulf during the first Gulf War and when the president came to speak to them they all had to turn in the bolts for their rifles before the assembly. Just in case you know.

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Yes, I am truly surprised. In terms of the President in front of troops, I'm even more surprised. I think this is just one symptom of how removed from real life politicians are. I think we might be better off taking the risk than having the President far removed from everyday life and people.

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The makeup of an audience does not heighten or lessen security concerns. Security and protection professionals analyze and study a situation based on objective criteria. It's not an insult to Scouts that the President travels with his Secret Service detail, just as it's not an insult to the military.

 

Consider this. The Jamboree is a public event, which Scouting and non-Scouting visitors can both attend. Even if the specific event at which the President were to speak were fenced in and all entrants had to go through metal detectors, that doesn't erase the potential danger from thousands of unscreened, un-checked visitors in the area around it. All it takes is one crazy person with some homemade explosives, or a long-distance weapon, or a remote-controlled device, or a backpack with canisters of some sort of chemical agent.

 

The president could be surrounded by a crowd of a thousand Boy Scouts, and he still could be a target. The khaki uniform - which can be bought from any one of hundreds of stores or online - is just as easily used as a disguise. All it takes is one determined half-intelligent nut.

 

In my view, the Secret Service can't be too careful.

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"So do children lose their rights once they don the BSA uniform?"

 

Of course not! They still retain every right to be unpatriotic and uncivil. They have every right to forget the respect they have for their country and its leaders. They have every right to ignore the Scout Oath and Law and behave like a pack of uncultured yahoos.

 

But are those the decisions we want to see our Scouts make?

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Just like the example you are setting in this post?

 

They/we are Scouts and not perfect individuals. So someone has a moment of weakness should we take them out behind the barn and smack them around? Kick them out of the program? I thought the point was to teach them to be better citizens. Did we fail here? You bet your butt we did! The last time I checked we have never talked about not booing someone at a Scout meeting. Can you honestly say that on May 4, 2008 or whenever you did? I seriouly doubt it.

 

This is a learning opportunity. Big deal the thing has gone viral. In 30 days no one will remember it happened just like anyone remembers there was an oil leak in the Gulf last week. Time passes and people forget.

 

What we need to do as leaders is take this opportunity to let the youth and leaders around us know that what happened is not acceptable. But on the other hand we need to let out leaders in whatever government know that their behavior and priorities are not acceptable either. BOTH sides are wrong in this deal. PERIOD!

 

Did the president have the right to not come the Jamboree? Sure! Did the people in attendance have the right to boo him for that choice? Sure! There have been plenty of people die in this country to ensure those rights on both sides!!!

 

We cannot change what happened in the past but we can try to improve them for the future. That is what is important here. Not bickering about who was un-Scoutlike or who was un-Presidentlike.

 

Let's all work harder to teach our kids and adults about this so it is not repeated in the future.

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If scouts and scouters wanted to express their opinions in a political rally, they should have removed the uniform first. Which brings up an interesting irony straight out the Scout Guide for Jamboree 2010 that scouts were required to read and follow.

 

http://www.bsajamboree.org/filestore/jamboree/pdf/410-153.pdf

 

Page 20

 

"18. Adult leaders and youth leaders must instruct youth to

avoid confrontation with groups, demonstrators, or

hecklers, and must assume a passive reaction to name-

calling from individuals or groups. Units or groups must be

removed from the area of potential conflict immediately."

 

Walt Kelly (Pogo comic strip) was right. "We have met the enemy and he is us."

 

My $0.02

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

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I believe our current Speaker of the House once stated that "dissent is patriotic" in reference to those individuals who acted this same way to another sitting president. Youtube actually has the speech if you are interested. I think this more than anything else tells us about the state of politics in this country.

 

That said, I do not think the booing was courteous. I think respect does need to be shown to any president, irregardless to your personal beliefs. There are better ways to show your disapproval of a politician, and voting them out of office is the best way.

 

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If they cheered it would have been an expression of free speech.

 

If they booed it would not have been?

 

The day free speech is intimidated, coerced, or shamed out of existence will be a first step to the downfall of the American Experiment.

 

I was surprised and a bit embarrassed by the amount of booing, but I'll defend everyone's right in the crowd to express their free speech as they wish. I did not join in and I did not try and stop anyone from expressing their free speech.

 

When people called President Bush an idiot or criminal, reacted the same way as I did when President Obama was booed.

 

Once our country achieves a single party sway, King George will have his revenge.

 

I'll cheer and I'll boo and I'll vote as I see fit and as I believe. When the day comes that I am no longer able to do that, then I'll cease calling myself American because the Constitution that protects all Americans will have ceased to be of any value to our society.

 

I wished the crowd didn't boo the President, but then one must always be careful of what one wishes for.....

 

Stosh

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Our mama's taught us all that if you don't have anything good to say about someone, don't say anything at all. Cheering is an acceptable response. Booing is not. Silence often speaks louder than words. The same message said in silence would have been deafening and a whole lot classier.

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You guys are getting two things mixed up here.

 

1. Freedom of speech and the 1st amendment

2. Courteous behavior and the tenets of the scout law and oath

 

The 1st amendment DOES give people the right to engage in this sort of speech. Constitutionally speaking, every individual present had the right to cheer, boo, hiss, chant, sing, or what have you. (Or to listen quietly, or to say nothing at all) I have not seen anybody seriously contend otherwise in this discussion.

 

The scout oath and law are something else. They do not carry the legal weight of the Constitution. They are simply guidelines for behavior. But, they are the guidelines we as scouters claim to try to live by, and to instill in our youth.

 

In my view, the fact of the president - whoever he is - being booed by a large number of uniformed scouts at a scouting event goes against several points in these guidelines and makes us look hypocritical when we talk about teaching and modeling values and manners and good citizenship to our boys.

 

It would be somewhat different if this were a partisan political event, but jambo is not supposed to be a political event, and scouts in uniform are supposed to keep at arms-length from politics so as not to implicate or trade on the image of scouting for political purposes. (I say this as a strong partisan and a teacher of political science - but when I'm in a scouting context and especially with my uniform on, I don't engage in politics.)

 

Imagine this: The Institutional Head of your charter org. makes an unpopular decision and the scouts subsequently boo him or her at the next court of honor. Or a local politician (of whatever stripe) is invited to make a guest appearance at a scout meeting in connection with one of the citizenship badges or requirement #4 for 2nd class or #5 for 1st class, and some scouts boo him or her.

 

Would you be mortified at your scouts' behavior? I hope so. While legal and constitutional, such behavior at a scouting event is, simply put, POOR FORM. I'm really shocked to see that so many here seem to have a different view on this.

 

 

 

 

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