Deaf Scouter 23 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Wondering with the rechartering coming around once again with new rules that one must have all required training for their position whether it be Scoutmaster(SM), Assistant Scoutmaster(ASM), Committee Chair(CC) or Committee Member(CM) and they don't take training. What are the options? Suppose we remove them completely? What if they hold key positions like treasurer, advancement chair, and etc. I know one MUST have 5-6 key positions filled for a charter in the following: SM, ASM, and three CM in which one CM must be the CC. Can they still do these positions without being registered in those 5 key positions as a non-registered adult? Pros and cons please? Policies I can use to back up arguments that can't be twisted around by a smooth talker? Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The past couple of years I've done the rechartering. I was pretty diligent in getting people registered as adult leaders, but if people doing committee work couldn't be persuaded to complete an application or YPT training, they didn't get registered. Nothing says a unit Treasurer must be registered. This summer I e-mailed everyone who needed to renew their YPT training or complete training for their position. No replies --- zero. So I'm fobbing off rechartering on the Committee Chair. You only HAVE to have people filling the mandatory positions needed for rechartering. People who aren't registered can still function as Committee Members --- even Assistant Scoutmasters and Den Leaders, as far as I know. Does this offend official policies on Youth Protection and other training? Sure it does. But when you erect too many hoops for people to jump through, people are going to quit jumping. That's where I'm at anyway. Perhaps the Committee Chair will want to do more jumping --- although I doubt it. The net result of all the BSA and council hubbub over YPT and training is that my aim is now to do the minimum required. I note however: I wont be doing the rechartering myself. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Our council bounced charters..... ASM's that were not fully trained became CM's. Our troop had 4 committee members and 6 ASM's who were 70 years old....well they became committee members because they were not going to take IOLS. We had several units recharter late because the SM's were not trained.... Our council enforced it.... Deaf if your folks refuse to get trained.....Who cares turn in your charter with out them being trained and see what happens. If it bounces it isn't your fault....it is theirs. Who knows your council might be all bark. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I'm expecting that a lot of Assistant Scoutmasters will be registered as Committee Members to avoid IOLS training. I'm expecting the number of registered leaders to go down as well as more units decide that jumping through all the hoops to register adults just isn't worth the effort. Perhaps we will see Cubmasters and Scoutmaster who have left their units retained as leaders for rechartering. As the process of registering leaders gets ever more burdensome, I expect that more units will discover that all they really have to do is the minimum for rechartering. Link to post Share on other sites
kari_cardi 10 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 This year in our council, anyone registered with the troop committee will be asked to do the online committee member training. They will also need to take YPT again as most took it two years ago to stay on the charter then. So the guys who switched from ASM to CM to avoid training will need to do some training anyway. I really wish there was some honorary position for the former leaders who want to stay on the charter for nostalgia and support yet do not have any direct contact with the youth or the current leaders, for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Deaf Scouter 23 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Seattle Pioneer.. I don't blame you one bit for turning the recharterig over to another. When I came on board 0% of the Committee had Troop Committee Training. All got it done but the CC. CC is still putting it off this year. I'll be honest its time consuming chasing people down and this year I not putting in much effort. I'm doing the three strike thing meaning I'm reminding them three times. BasementDweller. Yeah had my ASM last year switch to CM for the purpose of refusing to update any of his 1997 trainings. Funny part is I took a month break from Scouting after such a long, overwhelming year of stepping in as SM and being a newbie SM at that. It was a NICE deserved break. Got refreshed to start this year and that ASM turned CM decided with his crew to turn things upside down. He became ASM again and another became SM. None of this was done in the Committee meeting. Didn't even bother getting upset and said sure if that's what you want, go right ahead since its your boys that in the Troop. I just stepped in to help last year when a sudden death occurred. The biggest problem is they've worked their way around the rechartering for 3 tp 4 years now but never dealt with the real problem of how close they are to folding and how late they recharter. This year they MUST be trained and they MUST charter on time. No ifs, ands or buts. They will have problems doing BORs which they haven't even considered yet. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make them drink. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4344 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Our crew's screwed. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have often wondered what would happen if there weren't any training requirements to be a doctor, lawyer, banker, teacher, etc. I guess I'm not all that impressed with the untrained trying to make things work just because they got a boy in the program and don't want to disappoint him. Some get away with it for a short time because of natural charisma, but that can only last for a while. Then what happens when the unregistered, untrained Treasurer walks off with the $$$$? Or the unregistered SM is accused of abuse? The BSA isn't even going to toss you a life-jacket in that case. Not a road I would wish to be walking. Sure there are hundreds of ways to get around the rules, but just remember following them is still an option, too. This forum is filled with the molestation comments and how to deal with them, and then in the same breath, are throwing out suggestions on how to deal with adults that won't take a few minutes to take the YPT on-line. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Sentinel947 1205 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 If my troop ever starts to try to avoid the YPT, I'll leave. I'm not going to get caught up in an organization that is refusing to follow the rules, and could possibly get all the other adult leaders in huge trouble. Not worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 > Exactly the same thing that happens when the trained, registered Treasurer walks off with the $$$. > So Sentinel947, that means you are willing to do the rechartering and nag people repeatedly to update their YPT and to complete the training and paperwork needed to register people as leaders? Will you be doing the rechartering and nagging for your unit this year? I'm perfectly willing to have someone else do that task this year, it just isn't going to be me. In the past I've made a point of registering all our adult leaders, but that has become too burdensome a task for me to do. I suspect that it will be an unreasonably burdensome task for a significant percentage of units. BSA and councils are creating rules that units aren't going to follow. Complain about that all you wish, but it's a predictable result of implementing these policies. Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Can they still do these positions without being registered in those 5 key positions as a non-registered adult? Well, a non-registered adult can't fulfill the role of being your officially registered committee chair. You must have an officially registered SM, two committee members, and a committee chair. You need a COR, but that can be the CC. A person can be a treasurer, or an advancement chair, or pretty much anything else, without being registered. Note that you do need a registered leader to go on every trip. If they are a committee member and won't bother to take the simple on-line training, I'm not sure how committed they are in the first place. It's not that hard. Getting the ASMs to take their two in-person classes is a bit more of a hassle. We just tell everyone what training they need, and if they don't have it, we drop them from the charter. They can still do their job. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hello Sentinel947, Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 While a parent doing the unregistered helping out here or there for the boys is one thing, people always take the risk of negative litigation. However, getting the training, registering and getting one's i's dotted and t's crossed, means they fall under the liability insurance of the BSA. That's a couple of million in "peace of mind" that goes a long way in today's society. It would be interesting to know if a SM is protected from negligence if he allows an unregistered, no YPT trained parent to go on a trip and there's an improper situation involved? I guess I'm a bit like Sentinal947, I really don't want to stick around and find out. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Sentinel947 1205 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Seattle: after reviewing your comment and mine, I have come to the conclusion that while my stand is great in Principle, being my role in the troop, I would have extreme difficulty knowing who is not trained and registered. Plus from time to time parents who aren't register do go on the trips. So my stand is great for a hypotetical situation that will never happen, not so good in practice. Thank you for showing me my error of thinking, Sentinel947. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 In regards to YPT, if yours is not current, you are dropped. And we had several leaders that happened to. My council is just getting on the mandatory training band wagon. TRechartering in 2013, all top leaders must be trained. Not trained and the charter will be on hold until the training chair talks to you and comes up with a training plan. Then it will get approved. Not trained in 2014 and the unit doesn't get rechartered. I think the training chairs involvement is a very good thing at this stage. Our training records have errors and gaps in them, so having the training chair talk to see if it a records error or a serious need is good. Best example I can give of training gaps in the records is the district commissioner who was not trained according to the records, despite teaching at Philmont. Also for those in college, and I am willing to bet in the military too but talk to the council registrar for confirmation, the 92U College Scouter Reserve (Unit) may help. Link to post Share on other sites
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