Basementdweller 608 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sitting with an SM at roundtable this evening.... Discussion turns to summer camp...... I asked where they went, Camp Granada, My boys earned 65 merit badges, how many guys again??? 9 Wow that's a lot of merit badges.... I had 8 of them earn first class at summer camp. That's great, we struggle with the guys getting it done by their second summer camp... No, these are our webelos that crossed over in April...... Really, you guys only camp quarterly right??? Long pause ensues..... his response was... So? Just askin......... I didn't say anything....... So would you have said something???? If so what???? I am not sure of my feelings, somewhere between mad and disappointed.... Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4344 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 "Can your boys join ours on a campout and teach us some of those skills?" Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities No way...... Link to post Share on other sites
JMHawkins 15 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 So would you have said something???? I'm not sure there's anything you could say to him that would register. His reaction would probably be to become defensive about his sub-standard program, and the only thing you or I would accomplish would be to make him dig in even further. You've probably seen that reaction before, I'm guessing, in person or electronically. I'd like to think there's a way to eventually open their eyes, but I think it would take a lot more fellowship than confrontation, and it's hard to maintain a fellowship with someone you have a difficult time respecting. Perhaps the solution is first to congratulate him (in your heart as well as your words) on getting his scouts out to camp in the first place, and putting so much energy into the program. Granted, it's misdirected energy, but if you can see the good in him, maybe you can associate with him enough for him to see the benefits of your program over his. In other words, qwazse's answer... But hoo-boy. Doing that will really require living up to the Scout Oath when he's braggin' about all the MBs his little fledglings accumulated... Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I would have said, "wow...that means they'll probably be Eagle by the time they are 12...THEN what will you do with them?" Link to post Share on other sites
Cambridgeskip 658 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sounds to me like this SM is not thinking carefully about what the difference between what the requirements and say and what that actually looks like in practice. Example, last night one of my scouts querried why he had not yet been awarded his Outdoor Challenge. Requirements are here if you're interested http://www.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/2661/outdoor-challenge/?cat=56,135,157&moduleID=10 Now you can see that one of the requirments is "Set up a suitable stove, and prepare a meal using a stove." I pointed out to him that he had yet to complete this. "oh yes I have!" He said. I looked at my magical badge record spreadsheet. "When?" I asked. "I cooked pancakes back in February." he says. Now it sounds to me like this SM would have accepted that as fulfilling the requirements. He prepared some food on a stove so we'll tick it off. Now in my bok that doesn't cut the mustard. i want to see a proper meal with multiple things on a plate and preferably resembling a balanced diet, not a desert that a half competent cub could knock up. I would be fascinated to see what this SM thought fulfilled the requirements. I'm going to guess that actually he has a problem saying no the scouts. Link to post Share on other sites
GKlose 24 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Shortly after my older son joined a troop, and I signed up as a Scouter, I was in an email conversation with my old Scoutmaster, from some 40 years ago (he was only about 10 years older than his average Scout at the time), and I was complaining about something or other, and how it was different than we did things way back when. He responded with something along the lines of "congratulations, you've just learned your first lesson -- you've learned that the Scouting program is whatever any individual volunteer wants it to be, and you'll soon learn that you have no control over that." My wise old SM -- he's still teaching me after all these years :-). Guy Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Oh I know what happened..... His scouts got dumped into the t-1 course....the camp provided him a list of things they were supposed to have done and he simply just checked them off. No verification that the boy actually has the knowledge. I was wondering about the merit badges as well.....Unless he was just running his mouth. So how do 8 boys in a first year program earn an average of 7 a piece???? With being in the first year program and all???? Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 My response has been to quietly devote my time to this unit and not to worry about other units. I no longer attend roundtables, partly because of what you observed. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 He responded with something along the lines of "congratulations, you've just learned your first lesson -- you've learned that the Scouting program is whatever any individual volunteer wants it to be, and you'll soon learn that you have no control over that." Yah, that's da way of things, eh? Basementdweller, I reckon I might have said somethin'. Just depends on whether yeh think there's a chance that a seed would grow in that soil or not. Maybe invited him to come on a campout with another strong troop, so that he could see what First Class "looks like" in a boy. Da problem in a lot of cases is that adults have a hard time goin' from paperwork to program vision. Like most of us, they have to see and feel things to get the hang of it, not just read. B Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Beavah and Pack....this is one of the districts parlor troops....It is adult led....they camp quarterly.....and two of those times are in cabins.. He was bragging about the number of eagle required merit badges earned as well....Everybody earned citizenship in the nation.......All I can think is really???? At summer camp????? I shouldn't care.....Probably an ego thing on my part..... Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Under the letter of the law (not the intent), the 10 separate patrol/troop activities could be 7 ten minute afternoon sessions, and 3 overnight (single night) campouts. If they go to Summer camp, one of those is knocked out, so that's only 2 more campouts. I can see how it could be done theoretically, but I think it would make for a boring program. It takes our boys about a year to get ten activities for First Class, and anywhere from a year to two years to get First Class. We do camp or do some other activity at least once a month. Link to post Share on other sites
Sentinel947 1205 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Basement, just focus on providing an excellent program to your own Boys. There isn't anything to do about this Bragging SM. Link to post Share on other sites
BadenP 93 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 And we scouters still wonder why the BSA has lost most its former prestige. This type of SM unfortunately is becoming more the norm than the exception, at least in my and the adjoining council. We still get some 14yo former boy scouts who want to join our crew who are 1st Class to Eagle, who camped maybe twice with their troop, can barely swim, have no campcraft skills, at least none they have retained. They are screened and get ticked off, especially the Eagles, when they are told they will have to go through a basic skills course with the other new venturers who have little to no previous outdoor experience. Since our crew is mainly High Adventure we have set a minimum skill set and a training course before they can attend any outings, which can be demanding. This is the level of the Boy Scouts being produced in our area and it really makes me sad, especially for the boys. To BD : I would of told the SM "You really aren't doing your boys any favors and you are robbing them of the joy and fun of the scouting experience." Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 'Skip, Unfortunately that is the mentality that many new leaders on this side of the pond have. Between the "First Class, First Year" or whatever the heck they are calling it now, and the way some of the training syllabi have things stated, it's one and done. Link to post Share on other sites
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