BSA24 10 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 > The whole program is about the youth - not the adults. I would like an answer to this question: "Why?" Why is the program for the youth and not the adults. The adults were boy scouts, and most old boy scouts consider themselves boy scouts for life. Often the adults enjoy it more than the boys do. Until 1962, adults could earn the Eagle Scout Award and the merit badges. Daniel Beard earned his while serving as Chief Scout in 1915. In BPSA, there is still a Rover program for adults to earn badges and have fun scouting. Why is it today that adults enjoying scouting is taboo in BSA circles? This makes no sense to me. Frankly, I'd like to see adults working on the badges too. I'd like to see them to The Pull Up and run a quarter mile with the kids. I think the merit badges are great education. Why shouldn't adults study them as well? I don't understand the change in 1962. Frankly, I disagree with it. Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 BSA24, you raise interesting points. Nostalgia can be deceiving, but I recall the scouters of the '70s as an overall much jollier bunch than what I see today. Lots of long faces nowadays. Adults earning Eagle and such: I don't see a problem with it. Those who have the desire to earn badges are already doing it via knots and WB, so why not experience the trail to Eagle? They might have a better idea of what it takes. Concur 100 percent--scouters should be running and doing pull ups, along with swimming, hiking, shooting, rock climbing, chopping wood. A few might not be able to do all that due to physical limitation, but we should set the example to do our best, and to be physically strong.(This message has been edited by desertrat77) Link to post Share on other sites
BDPT00 41 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Can Mom be an Eagle too? Grandma or Grandpa? Where's the line? C'mon. What part of the word 'boy' don't we understand? BDPT00 Link to post Share on other sites
JMHawkins 15 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think the adults have to get enjoyment out of the program too in order to continue volunteering the rather significant amounts of time needed to make it all work. But I'm not in favor of making it "about the adults too" because it would too easily degenerate into some sort of large antlered ruminant lodge, though perhaps with less frequent drinking (at least while the youts are around). I'm okay with some kind of semiformal recognition of skills and accomplishments for the adults, and certainly with groups of Scouters getting together for their favorite beverages now and then, but the focus should be on the experience that the Youth have in the program. I might be pursuaded to reconsider "adults working on the badges" though if it would encourage some of the Scouts to be a little more goal-oriented. Not sure if it would though, and I think I'd want a different set of adult badges in any event. Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 JM, well said. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 over the years, I have earned hundreds of belt loops, earned the AOL 4 times now, countless merit badges, Tenderfoot rank a number of times as well as second and first class. The only difference between me and the boys is they get the patch and it gets written down. So is it recognition you are chasing???? Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I wouldn't be in favor of Eagle for adults, but I could certainly see some adult awards along the lines of those suggested (we do have some awards already - knots, BSA Lifeguard, Mile Swim, 50-miler, BSA Physical Fitness, Emergency Prep, ...) I could see some set of more structured awards that represent real mastery of a topic, that would be more than just surviving a class. Tie these twenty knots in under two minutes. Get left in the woods naked and survive for a week. I think that the mile swim is like this, but there aren't many others I could point to. I do think it's really important for the adults to have fun, and it's good to have little things that help give some positive feedback. It's easy enough to say "it's all about the boys", but it can be hard to keep that long-term vision in mind every single minute. Link to post Share on other sites
Tokala 16 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I get enjoyment from volunteering as a positive, adult, male role model. Now that I'm 'mature' I find the "leave a legacy" concept much more fulfilling and rewarding than even Eagle Scout. I constantly remind the youth now that it's not my program; it's theirs! I had my turn as an SPL, Lodge Chief, summer camp staff, etc. It's my turn to encourage young men to get as much from the program as they can, just as the adult men mentored me. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I understand BSA24's sentiments - The BSA is primarily youth program, but it is not "all about the youth." Without strong adult support, there is no program for the boys. The BSA spends resources to motivate adults to volunteer, take basic training, take supplemental training, provide award recognition, WoodBadge, Powder Horn, etc. The BSA is very interested (or should be) on how to make the program not just enjoyable for the boys, but also for the adults. Heck, the BSA highly encourages (expects) adults to wear the same Boy Scout Uniform just like the boys. As for me, I'm not in the program to be a "man scout" but I do enjoy the fraternal aspect of the organization like being part of the brotherhood of Scouting. As for adults earning merit badges up until 1962, I'm not sure why they discontinued doing that after 52 years of BSA existence, but I'm sure there it was not a "knee jerk" decision to suspend it. During the 1940's/50's, when my grandfather was a Scoutmaster, he earned merit badges along with the boys and attained the rank of Star. Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I have seen plenty of parents earn Eagle. Then they give the medal to their kid to wear. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think some of the concern is that the focus would move from the youth to the adults, at the expense of the adults. I collect Scouting magazines, and in the post war period there were several articles against scouters earning Eagle. It seems to be that in the early days, it was seen as a good idea, as the Scoutmasters would have a better appreciation of what the scout had to do, but by the post war period, when many scouters now could have earned Eagle as a youth, that adults doing so might distract the adults from doing THEIR job of supporting the youth. So I think if we make sure that the program is PRIMARILY about/for the youth, we are ok. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 > This is the key in my opinion. I aim to find ways to engineer fun into the program for myself and for adults too. The Scout troop for which I'm Unit Commissioner used to have pizza or another treat for Patrol Leader meetings to help attract more boys to the meetings. The Troop Committee meets at the same time and they are now ordering pizza or other treats for the adults for the same reason. At a pack committee meeting Monday I had a beverage and some banana bread I baked for the adults who turned out. At my pack recruiting night September 12th boys and their parents will be making stomp bottle rockets together, which is a fine parent and son project. Personally, I don't see having adults compete with boys for things like Eagle, but it's important to have fun, adventure and excitement for adults in the program as well, in my opinion. > I've objected to this in the past as well. I think it's wrong, but only because it exaggerates too much. I've know Scout troops where the program is primarily about the adult leaders going on summer canoeing trips and finding a few boys to go along as well. That suits those adults, but it's not what the program should be either. Link to post Share on other sites
CalicoPenn 729 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm trying to figure out what the issue here is. Is it about adults not being able to earn youth awards like merit badges and the Eagle Scout rank? Seems to me there are plenty of awards out there that adults can earn - from training awards, to the District Award of Merit all the way up Silver Beaver that the youth can't earn. The awards even have nifty little patches that go with them to sew on a uniform. And there's nothing stopping any adult from reading a merit badge book and doing the activities in it on their own - I would think most of us would have grown out of the stage of needing a little round patch to validate the work we did. Is it about adults not having fun? Seems to me that's a problem with the attitudes of the adults, not of the boys. Like desertrat, I recall my adult leaders in the 1970's as being jolly folks - they all seemed to enjoy being on outings, and going to meetings, mentoring lads and smiling while we had fun running around playing capture the flag and they sat around the campfire and just watched. My mother was a den leader for a long time - she did some of the same crafts year after year after year - but always had a smile on her face working with the cubs - even if it was a craft she had personally come not to like anymore. The leaders I work with today? All seem to have smiles on their faces because they've got the same "It's for the boys" attitude I remember from my time as a youth, and remember being taught when I started as an adult leader. I don't recall anything anywhere saying adults can't have fun in Scouting - I would hope that the adults who are volunteering are having fun - and if you're not, please go away before you let that kind of negativity affect the boys in your unit. Scouting, and parenting in general, shouldn't be a chore - when I'm on vacation, I can tell the parents that are having fun and the ones that aren't - the ones having fun are the ones that are playing the silly (to adults) games at the Micky D's playlands with their kids - the ones that aren't are the ones staring at their kids through the glass, crossing their arms and looking at their watch every 10 seconds. The ones that are having fun are the ones letting their 5 year old decide how long to look at an animal in the zoo and where to go next - the ones that aren't are dragging their kids around without caring what the kid wants - those are the ones with the crying kids. One final thing - a typo correction - it was 1952 when the Scouts stopped awarding Eagle to adults, not 1962. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 When I was Scoutmaster (thirty years ago) I mentioned on the way to summer camp that I was planning on doing the camp mile swim, one of the activities open to both youth and adults. Five or six Scouts decided to do that as well, with all except one completing the mile swim program and getting the mile swim badge (me, too). I'm sure that until I mentioned it the idea of doing that program had scarcely crossed the mind of any of the boys. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If adults could earn advancements again would we then have helicopter GRANDPARENTS? Link to post Share on other sites
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