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I'll believe this change when I see it implemented -- just like every other change that someone reports in this forum after having "heard it from someone at the Philmont Training Center." (Or heard it from someone who heard it, or heard it from someone who heard it from someone who... you get the idea.) If every change reported in this forum as having been "heard" at the PTC had actually been implemented, there would be a lot of things different from they way are now. The only one I can recall specifically is the Cooking Merit Badge, which according to someone who heard it at the PTC, would have been back on the Eagle-required list for several years now. But there have been others, and I don't think most of them ever actually see the light of day.


I hope the training they give there is better than the rumors they spread.

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As a parent of a rising Webelos, I don't really like the CS law, but I do like that it is different at the cub level. That way when I get to Webelos and begin preparing the boys, it gives us something to focus on.


The oath/promise I'd be fine with combining. If you look at the two, you have:

Cub Scout:

I, (say your name), promise to DO MY BEST

To do my DUTY to GOD And my Country

To HELP other people, and

To OBEY the LAW of the Pack


Boy Scout:

On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight.


If you go through it line by line, they are not all that different until the last line in the Boy Scout version.

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While I think that there's merit in the suggestion, I also think it ignores the differences between 6 year olds and 21 year olds - and the various ages between. I've been involved in piloting/testing a "Lion Cubs" program for my council with Kindergarten-age boys - they won't understand the Scout Oath and Laws. I think 9-10 years old Webelos are beginning to have the capacity to understand the Scout Oath.


But that's just me.

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I'm okay with it. I don't think the BS oath is any more difficult for a Cub to understand than the CS oath. But I'm a traditionalist and kinda hate to see the CS oath go.


I am hopeful this is the beginning of an effort to streamline the programs top to bottom. If you were going to design a system whereby half-way through the program you winnowed the membership by half, you couldn't come up with much better than the current Crossover baloney. I've written on this at length and won't repeat it now. I hope substantive changes to the structure and relationships between packs, troops ad crew are on the way. But if the "One Oath Initiative" is it, then it's nothing more than eyewash and will be evenless effective than the past "fixes" Acco outlined.

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scouts-a-lot: "As an adult involved in all three levels I welcome it. I cannot tell you the # of times I have said the wrong words and looked foolish!"


Been there. Screwed it up too. LOL.


twocubdad: "If you were going to design a system whereby half-way through the program you winnowed the membership by half, you couldn't come up with much better than the current Crossover baloney."


Fully agree. I hope a one oath is just a start. I can't say the number of times I've been sad when families leave near the end of cub scouts without really understanding that Boy Scouts is a much different and much more dynamic program. Scouts and families in their 4th / 5th year of Cub Scouts are ready for more. But they just see the Tiger / Wolf / Bear program. They don't see the youth leadership and fun program of Boy Scouts.


As part of smoothing out the relationship between Cubs, Boy Scouts and Venturing, I'd like to see Webelos treated more like a 4th step. Bring all the programs closer together, but keep treating Webelos as a transitional program that prepares Cubs for Boy Scouts.


Right now, Webelos is treated separately ... somewhat. You hear it at times that Webelos are not Cub Scouts. But then they get registered with the pack and meet with the pack. I'd just like to see a stronger separation between Cub Scouts and Webelos.


One possible change is that instead of having Webelos meet with the pack, have the Webelos meet with the troop. Keep a Webelos den leader. Grow the use of the "denner". Have Webelos working on functional skills they can use when they become Boy Scouts. Have them see the older boys in action. Then in Feb of 5th grade, they graduate from Webelos into full members of the troop. With that one change, I think you would retain many more scouts and develop a strong Boy Scout program. I'm going to spin this off as a thread.


But even then smooth out the transition between all four programs, Cub Scouts, Webelos, Boy Scouts and Venturing.




Of course this is all just "supposing" that change is coming. We all hope the future will bring improvements. But who knows....(This message has been edited by fred8033)

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I've been working for several years to make our Webelos program a much better transition into Boy Scouts.


So far that has met with meager results, although we did have one second year Webelos do a hike to a mountain lake with the nearby troop July 14th.


Unfortunately, not much interest by the troop in taking more of an interest in the Webelos den and not much interest by the Webelos den leader in being more a part of the troop.


Neither party is really motivated to do what needs to be done.


We have five second year Webelos. A good program with the troop might result in all five transitioning into the troop. Without that --- one will likely transition to the troop where his brother is a Scout. Whether more will do so I don't know.


Frankly I consider that a crying shame.

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Just quized the tiger and bear great nephews who are visiting this week. They have no more problem understanding BS motto, oath, and law than does my average tenderfoot scout. Being preacher's kids, they might have a few compliance issues ;)


This age-appropriate business is one of my pet peeves. I find kids much more capable than we give them credit.


Like venturing ... I don't see youth having a problem with the oath changing. They would have a problem with the awards and recognition changing. Especially they would have a problem with being placed in ranks. And honestly, it's no more complicated than those stupid belt loops.

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As a Cub Leader, I'm ok with it being the same, but it's not a huge deal to me either way.


However, at the very least, I think they should change the current Cub Scout Promise to remove the "I " part.


Right now, it inevitably ends up


"Mumble Mumble Mumble, Promise to do my best...."

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Right now I am having my Bears that have been together since Tigers help the new boys that signed up in the Spring recruitment with their Bobcat requirements (Achievement 24 a Recruit a new scout or help a scout on the Bobcat trail) and they can't remember the CS Oath or Law of the Pack. They remember the motto! It will be something to work on because we may have more boys join us after Fall recruitment. I am torn, I like the separation of the two, yet having just one would make things a little easier.

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I have to agree with the earlier comments that this seems like a solution looking for a problem.


As far as Webelos programs and the transition to Boy Scouts, that's more dependant on the parents, kids, and leaders than any oath. I've had dens of Webelos in my pack that started camping as a den and visiting troops as first-year Webelos, and dens that wait until after crossover to find out what Boy Scouting is about. No amount of pushing, prying, cajoling, demonstrating, banging of heads against walls, etc, could get those dens that didn't want to shake the Cub program off to change.



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