Denied......

[ScouterCa 10]

Well said emb021, thank you for the info.

[JMHawkins 15]

There's nothing wrong with bylaws so long as you don't need them.

 

But once you need them, you're as likely to find them a source of trouble as a source of help. At their best, bylaws are a means of resolving disagreements among the folks on the committee by stating what you will do if you don't agree to do otherwise. By itself, there's nothing too badly wrong with that, you're just setting up some default assumptions. But the temptation is so strong to add and extend and update, and it's a temptation that is strongest with the least desirable sort of committee members, the ones who would rather be right than do right.

 

Bylaws let these folks be "right" by quoting subparagraph 4 of Section IV.3.a to prove their point. But that's a bad way to resolve disagreements and no way at all to reach consensus.

 

It's also no way to solve the problems moosetracker mentions. Or really what I should say is bylaws won't solve any of those problems until after they've already happened. You don't know to write a bylaw that says kids can't be taken off medication prior to summer camp until you've had that problem. Then as soon as you write that bylaw, you find yourself with another problem when a kid should be taken off medication and you've got someone quoting Paragraph 7a saying he has to stay on the meds if he's going to go to summer camp even though everyone knows it's the wrong thing to do. And in any event, that's a decision for the SM and the adults who will be going to summer camp with the scouts, not for the Committee who will be sitting at home.

 

Theft and embezzlement? Require two signatures on a check and have the bank statements sent to two different committee members each month (Treasurer and CC perhaps). If you want to call those bylaws, fine. There's paragraph 1. Paragraph 2 says "This committee will operate under the Scout Law for the good of the Troop, the youth, and the Charter Org". You don't need a paragraph 3. If you write one, you'll eventually end up with a paragraph 4, then 5, and so on, and someday someone will try to use those extra paragraphs to prove themselves "right," creating discord and drama.

 

Good will and good sense are what's needed from MCs. Along with a realization that you are on the committee for the good of the unit and the program, not to get your soap opera fix. If anyone needs drama, they should watch TV. TV has plenty of dramas, all of which have the great and tremendous advantage of being complete fiction so no real people are hurt by it all.

 

 

[moosetracker 132]

OK, I will accept I am wrong with calling them bylaws when they should be called policy & procedures..

 

But, I disagree with JMHawkins that once written, they can not be modified.. So if 10 years ago the policy is scout can not be removed from medicine for summer camp, and now you have a reason to do so, if the policy is brought up, and the SM recommends in this instance it is not applicable, then the policy is either not enforced, or changed to add in "unless those adult leaders in attendence are agreeable to it".

 

Now if bylaws are simply when a meeting is to take place, and membership and officers.. Well, then it is pretty short and sweet, and most is already in place by the BSA guidebooks and the other half is known after a week of being a member.

[JMHawkins 15]

But, I disagree with JMHawkins that once written, they can not be modified.. So if 10 years ago the policy is scout can not be removed from medicine for summer camp, and now you have a reason to do so, if the policy is brought up, and the SM recommends in this instance it is not applicable, then the policy is either not enforced, or changed to add in "unless those adult leaders in attendence are agreeable to it".

 

In other words, the committee comes to a consensus about what should be done, which they can do just fine without the bylaws. In fact, having the bylaw there about summer camp medicine is more likely to hamper reaching consensus than help it.

[ScouterCa 10]

Wow,....seriously? Not one adult in our troop has the letters, M.D., D.O., N.D. or the like after their names. I would think that medication would always be a decision between the scout's dr, the parents, and the scout. Seems crazy that something like that would be put into bylaws or policies, let alone be legal or followed.

 

Many of these answers are really off question.

[moosetracker 132]

No, most likely in the 10 years since it was written, it was utilized just fine.. And was what was needed to be used on probably the very same parents who the policy was created for in the first place for the next 5 years of summer camp, if not on two or three other occasions.

 

But now 10 years later it can be altered for this other scout due to other the factors such as possibly this other scouts dad is going to be at summer camp, or the medication has nothing to do with behavior or any other concerns of the people who will be attending, or one of the adult leaders going is a professional child behavioral specialist and is comfortable with the situation.

[acco40 95]

I feel that society is slowing having their social skills eroded by - yes, online forums, Facebook, text messaging, email, video games, chat rooms, fear of crime, youth sports run by adults, etc.

 

Therefore, instead of talking to a parent, as I did about their son's behavior on campouts, they would rather have some of "law" state that those Scouts who take stimulants to treat hyperactive disorders for school be required to take them during scouting functions. Come on, if a Scout misbehaves on an outing, I'll have a conversation with the parent (after my conversation with the scout, his patrol leader, troop guide, SPL, chaplain's aide, etc.).

 

As Scoutmaster, if wasn't fond of bylaws. I was in favor of a parents guidebook that stated such things as rudimentary advancement policies, the night we meet for troop meetings, uniform and behavior expectations, suggested personal camping gear, etc.

 

Take for instance something as simple as tents. Scout brings his own or does troop provide? Can he bring his own if the there are troop tents? Not so much bylaws, but useful information for parents.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Beavah 205]

As a fellow who has also written bylaws and worked with a lot of different organizations, I'll again disagree with emb021. If he were to take any model set of bylaws and compare it to what's in da Troop Committee handbook he'd find all kinds of gaps. A unit is a division of the Chartered Organization and not the BSA, so sayin' that there might be a BSA policy is also irrelevant.

 

Bylaws define structural stuff, and having structural stuff defined is helpful. It's mostly helpful because it sets norms and expectations that prevent things from running off the rails and make people comfortable. How do yeh select a CC? How big does an expense have to be to require prior approval of da committee? What quorum and notice is required before yeh sell da troop trailer? If there's a standard way to address the question of a scout who may be removed from the troop, then that's a big help when such a situation comes up. It protects everybody, and nobody feels like people are doing arbitrary things because they're on one side or another. And yeh won't find much clear guidance on those issues in any of da BSA books.

 

Lots of times, too, bylaws prevent problems by giving folks a structure in which to disagree responsibly.

 

Havin' policies and procedures is also a fine thing, and quite natural.

 

Can bylaws and policies be used poorly? Yah, sure. Anything can be used poorly. Like when folks try to use policies or bylaws to respond to individual problems or events, eh? Policies and bylaws should define what's normal, not address what's abnormal. Da abnormal stuff yeh deal with individually, eh? By addressing people personally and saying' that's not da way we do things. Lots of adults tend to be conflict and leadership adverse, though. They'd rather have a policy to point to to pretend it wasn't somebody making a decision that a person didn't like. It's nonsense.

 

Havin' policies that define what's normal, though, helps. It's a means of communication. A reference for new families. A reminder for long-timers who start to make things "their troop" rather than "our troop".

 

But in order for any good to come of 'em, either bylaws or policies, everybody has to have access to 'em, eh? So no, of course it's not normal if they're not being shared openly and freely. It's a sign that something is up.

 

And yeh should be alert and fix that, ScouterCa.

 

Beavah