Brewmeister 132 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This has probably been discussed before...but anyway... I was talking to a friend of mine recently. He has gone through various leadership rolesDL, CM, troop committee. His son has been involved in scouting since he was a Tiger, and the boy is now a Life Scout entering high school. My friend said to me, You know, I really dont understand why my son likes this scouting stuff. To me it seems pretty boring and a lot of it is like school. My response was thats not what scouting is supposed to be about, and I spouted the party line about the outdoors and personal growth and leadership and all that good stuff. His reply was, Yes, but whats the POINT? In other words, without what he viewed as the measurement of progress (badges and rank), the purpose wasnt there. To him the purpose of scouting is the destination, not the journey. Its easy to think that way and I do it myself. People have a natural focus on achievement and outcomes that can be measured by grades, advancements, awards, trophies, college admissions, salaries, and so on. We have a hard time justifying being involved in something just because its a lot of fun to do. Thats not time well spent, after all. We should be doing something more productive. So if Johnny is involved in scouting, he really should be working toward something thats going to pay dividends. Its not just scouting. Kids dont get together to play sandlot baseball any more. Instead, parents put their kids on teams with practices, scrimmages, and games four nights a week and trips to other cities on the weekends to compete in high-pressure tournaments. A lot has been written in these forums about what the struggles of scouting are related to, whether its the demise (or not) of the patrol method, helicopter parenting, social/religious policy, national organization structure, and so on. Maybe its really because we as a society arent willing to let kids just have fun for the sake of fun anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
jonathanrbaker 10 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Excellent post! I look at it like climbing a mountain...The journey is a reward in that it allows you to test yourself, it strengthens you and creates a special bond with any companions you take along. At the same time, the destination is a reward, in that you are gifted beauty and perspective to which you would not have had access.(This message has been edited by jonathanrbaker)(This message has been edited by jonathanrbaker) Link to post Share on other sites
Engineer61 19 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Some interesting thoughts there Brew. I'm a bit more confused about Scouting than your friend, because I get competing messages for which I don't make the connection. There's the journey, experience, leadership, outdoors message, Scouting is Outing or vice versa. Then there's the "you gotta" message ... MB's, Camporee, Summer Camp, Jambo, Eagle by 14, Eagle-then-quit, parent bribing their kids to get Eagle, Eagle means better colleges, better jobs, only Scouts are good leaders... So I think it's easy for non-Scouters to not get it. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 kids aren't allowed to play sandlot sports anymore because the coach tells them they are not allowed......They risk injury and losing all of the technique that was taught in practice.... Fun be damned..... We have a couple of social scouts......They don't care about advancing or tying knots or camp craft......They enjoy being with their friends camping, fishing and hiking.....They both recently became tenderfoot after a year of just hanging out......and amazingly enough they are most of the way finished with second class.....Again it was thru no or minimal effort on their part..... the SM observed them doing the requirements and signed them off as he saw them......then he pulled them a side one night for a SMC and then right into the BOR..... Both were really surprised and reserved proud..... Parents it is the destination......Many boys it is the destination......a few it is the journey....... For me it is and always will be the journey. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'm thinking it's the journey as well. Since I was forced into early SM retirement, I have had more time on my hands to pursue the very same things I was doing with the boys, only now I do it with an open-age co-ed group. I do kayaking, hiking, camping and cross-country skiing on a regular basis. I started at the beginning of the year with putting out announcements about a "Flash Mob" at a certain location for an activity. My wife and I were going and if anyone wanted to go along they could. Well since the first of the year, beginning with my wife and I, the group has now grown to about 25 participants. These are the very same people who are the parents of scouts and enjoy the activity but not the politics of an organized group. There are no rules, no charters, no fees, just show up. If it's an overnight, you can stay in a hotel, cabin, RV park, or camp. You're on your own for travel expense and meals. Surprisingly, people are showing up and we're having a great time. The point being with a "Flash Mob" the only destination is the starting point of the activity. There is no guarantee the program will last any longer than the last activity. What's the draw becomes the focal point that many in the BSA program often ignore. Basically we have fun. There is no advancement, no training (other than a newbie that shows up needs help in how to kayak or ski), but hiking is no big deal. While it is imperative that BSA has an important mission to develop well rounded adults, too often we forget the journey. A lot of lip service goes into the journey, i.e. Scouting must be FUN, but do they really take it all that seriously? Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 IMHO, there are no destinations, only waypoints. I think I just found what I want carved on my tombstone. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 >>Surprisingly, people are showing up and we're having a great time. The point being with a "Flash Mob" the only destination is the starting point of the activity. There is no guarantee the program will last any longer than the last activity. Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't think it's an either/or. The reward is both the journey and the destination. I do agree with Eagledad, Scouting gives our young men the chance to make many more choices than they can in any other youth program. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Eagledad, It might be instant gratification for that particular event, but with all the concerns about declining membership and disenchantment with the program floating around the forum, it is a very successful program that keeps people coming back time after time. Every camporee, outing, trip, etc. is instant gratification with the definition you are using. So I'm unsure of the point being made. The original point being if one has a worthwhile activity and it has an ongoing impetus, people will keep coming back for more of that "instant gratification". As long as people find value in what is happening, the event will perpetuate itself, that is a journey, but no one knows how long, or if it will continue and for sure there is no "goal" at the end of any rainbow out there. With BSA at age 18 there is a destination... oh, no wait, you can keep the journey going as an adult too. So I guess AOL, Eagle, etc. are just way-stations along the way. However AOL and Eagle are majorly touted as destinations and then everyone stands around scratching their heads wondering where everyone went. When we have boys that don't find value in a free week at summer camp, then there is something seriously wrong with the program. Obviously these boys don't envision any gratification/value or they would be going. Simply getting out of the house for a half day or weekend seems to spark the interest of these people. We have couples, families and single individuals participating so it seems to interest people of all ages and both genders. Whereas no expectations are placed on these people, they will put up with a bit of cold hands in the winter, blisters in the spring and fall, and getting a bit wet in the summer. So they get badges? No. Do they advance rank? No. Do they earn MB's? No. They just go, enjoy each others company and have a good time. Maybe if Scouting had more fun the journey would be a bit more valuable to the boys. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 >>Stosh-Every camporee, outing, trip, etc. is instant gratification with the definition you are using. So I'm unsure of the point being made. >Stosh-There are no rules, no charters, no fees, just show up. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Two things. 1) As soon as anyone defines a "destination" the journey is over. We see it with the hoopala at AOL and Eagle, but for a lot of people, all of life from Tiger on is a journey, even if that person doesn't continue to wear a uniform or pay the registration. I haven't put on a scout uniform for a month or two and yet every day, my journey of honesty, integrity, fun in the out-of-door, etc. all continue on. I have yet to reach a destination. Therefore I think the journey is more important than any destination because destinations always mark the end of things. 2) So we have a journey. Barry and I are 100% in agreement on the fact that the journey is too often not part of a boy's life. It is designed by adults doing their adult scouting program. I don't know of any scout that looks back fondly on the Citizen MB's or many of the other requirements established by BSA. Of course I'm not saying these things are not important, but what about all the fill-in time when the boys go camping, go on hikes, do a canoe trip, etc. where in fact they review these skills but it's part of the journey they have taken ownership in. As an example we have two boys not wanting to go to summer camp even if it's free. They haven't bought into the process, and I don't mean just the $$'s. They don't have an emotional commitment and have convinced themselves it carries no value for them. Yet if they were to have designed the summer camp experience, putting in the things they would enjoy, even with limited funds from the family's resources, they would have figured out how to get the money. The T-FC teach boys all the skills to take ownership of their own program, from setting up camp, to handing the finances, to cooking meals. So why don't the boys do it? SM says we're going to camporee for the umpteenth time. They are going to participate in fire starting for the umpteenth time, and do first aid for the umpteenth time. And when the boys want to go play sports, buy a car or chase girls, we can't figure out what went wrong with the program. It's the journey and the quality of the journey that is the important part. As I mentioned with the Flash Mob, there is no destination, only the journey and no one knows where it will be next month nor when. We meet tomorrow and we'll discuss what our options might be at that time while we kayak the lake and enjoy each other's company. The best example of how I see the problem?.... Boy starts in Scouting, all fired up, moves all the way up to Life by the time he's 13-14. Now he gets bored with scouting and baseball appears, cars, and girls, work and a dozen other things. BUT!... the destination hasn't been reached so after a 2-3 year hiatus, they come back do their Eagle project, get the rank for their resume and disappear back into the mist. Did I miss anything? Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47) Link to post Share on other sites
rldavis 10 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Our kids are homeschooled and I feel they are getting a much better education this way. I won't tell you my feelings on public school - I would be edited out. Also, my kids help me with my lawn business - they are learning all the tools of running a business including the working part. There are many merit badges that focus on business issues and these are the basis for the American spirit and success. Being homeschooled they also have time to work on other merit badges that interest them. Anyone that says scouting is not relevant should take a look at the merit badges and the many subject areas they cover. Try to get this in any school system! Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You can not reach a destination, any destination, without the journey to get there. In Scouting, we give our Scouts the opportunities to mature, learn, and grow into great young folks, with a wider view of the world. What ever "destinations" they reach, or not reach, they still manage to learn, and grow, along the way. Every Scout takes something from the experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Brewmeister 132 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 How do we get the boys and parents to appreciate the journey when they are focused on the destination? Link to post Share on other sites
DeanRx 69 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I can honestly say I have two different viewpoints: As a YOUTH - it was about the destination... what did I accomplish as summer camp, at camp-o-ree, at High Adventure. Did I make Eagle? No, but I learned a lot along the way and checked a bunch of boxes off. As an ADULT - its about the journey... I have a greater appreciation now of what the journey is and the benefits the journey gives to the youth to develop into manhood. Extremely hard to see that part or appriciate it when you are the youth going through it, IMHO. I agree there are things in scouting that are fun and those that are just work that you bear down and get through to check the box. However, its a lot like that in life. My work, many things I find rewarding, others I think are stupid and only do them because the people who sign the paycheck tell me it needs to be done. I think the two most important things we can teach via scouting is independant decision making and taking responsibility for your decisions. Second, is that in life not everything worth doing long term is all fun and games in the short term, some of it frankly sucks. But, the rewards gained at the completion are much sweeter when there is perseverance involved. The second of these definately speaks to the destination side of things, which is not a totally bad way of measuring your life, it just shouldn't be the ONLY way you assign value to your activities. Link to post Share on other sites
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