How to Force the Change

[boomerscout 35]

"Both scouts just decided they did not want to go to summer camp.

Hmmm, free week of sumer camp, I think I'll pass. No value."

 

Too many do not like change. Some can't handle change at all. Even if the "new thing", such as summer camp, is perceived as good, and they want to do it, they sometimes can not bring themselves to step up to the plate and git'er done.

I've seen this at college. Students with good grades get to the senior year, or even to the last semester, and then just walk away.

Obcviously, the amount of change that can be handled is different for each person.

 

Anyone know how to overcome this?

 

 

[Engineer61 19]

I don't think there is a set solution to it.

 

You either deal with change, or you let change deal with you.

 

It's an acquired ability, usually a baptism of fire. You don't know how to deal with losing a job, until you've been let go.

 

But when you force change just for the sake of the experience, something is lost in the translation. Forcing a kid to go to camp, join a team, etc., can cause a resentment that overshadows the intended lesson of dealing with the actual activity.

 

In some cases, it can completely backfire.

 

At 8, we used to make our kids go to church, now at 16 an 20, both think Church is evil in and of itself, neither believe God is real. Solving that is beyond me.

 

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[Scoutfish 16]

" I think I'll pass. No value "

 

Just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, value is in the mind of the consumer.

 

Is this their first chance to go to camp?

 

Is this something they have done many times before?

 

Are these scouts into scoutinmg because it's something they 100% want, or is it a mom and dad impposed activity, or a combination of both?

 

Back to the "Value" of camp. Again, it depends on who you ask as for what the value it is> For parents and/or leaders...it's about another oppertunity to learn and develop a scout. But mind you, in the scout's perspective, it might not have any more percieved value than taking algebra and world history.

 

Same thing with my son and I. His definiton of value is : Cool , fun stuff that is in style/latest fad.

 

My definition is " Something that is worth the price you pay and/or leaves a positive lasting impression( could be plain enjoyment, could be a life lesson or a new skill. Could be something that makes your job esier).

 

So ..... "No value" may be just that to the scout.

 

Granted, I'd try to do the: "Just give it a day or two, if you still don't like it or want to continue, you can go home.

 

Haven't had to do that when it comes to camping, but have used it at other times. So far, son has always admitted that it was fun and better than he thought it would be.

 

But....I will keep my word. If he does try as we agreed and find he doesn't want to continue, I'll see that he gets back home

[Eagle732 27]

This would have been both boys second summer camp.

Both boys come from low income homes with limited opportunities.

We offered, they chose not to go.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[Stosh 3452]

Ever think the boys might be right?

 

What was their experience at the first summer camp? After a week, they found it of no value, why would they on limited resources want to invest in it again?

 

Ever think there are other scouting things the boys could be doing for the week other than summer camp? Maybe a "Here's summer camp. Take it or leave it", isn't the approach one might want to take. "Here's a week for scouting this summer, what do you want to do with it?" might be a more "valuable" question to be asking.

 

Remember change doesn't come easily for a lot of people. However, opportunities (same thing different word) come their way all the time. If one has only one choice, it's not much of a choice. What other opportunities are there out there that would inspire change for the boys so that one doesn't have to force it?

 

Stosh

[Eagle732 27]

Stosh,

Did I say "Take it or leave it"??? Please show me where I said that because I don't remember saying that. I said we offered these two scouts a free week of summer camp (I though that was a good thing but maybe not) and they declined. Their choice. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I didn't bring up the "Forced Change" issue. Again we offered, that's all.

 

"What was their experience at the first summer camp?"

Of the scouts that went to summer camp last year only these two are not attending. Seems like most boys had fun but since I wasn't there I can't say for sure. Everyone sure seems to be looking forward to going again this year.

 

"why would they on limited resources want to invest in it again?"

What limited resources are they expending? A week of their time? Again it was free, camp fee, food, transportation, all FREE.

 

When I posted my comments on the other thread they were in reference to the statement that "Nothing that is free has value" I see the truth in that.

 

Of course the boys are right, they made the right decision for themselves. I think it's a lost opportunity buy it's not my decision to make.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[resqman 108]

How invovled during the regular year are these Scouts? Do they go camping reqularly?

 

We have 1st yrs "stuck" in first year camp programs that would rather be taking MB classes. We have boys that don't like using the latrine. Don't like the camp food. Don't like having to get dressed with a stranger(tent mate) in their tent. They don't like swimming in the dark water of a lake filled with mysterious icky things. There are number of concerns for 11 yr olds that adults never consider.

 

Those who are active in the regular program, seem to enjoy summer camp. The scouts who have been to summer camp 3-4-5 times get bored and are looking for High Adventure.

 

11 yr olds don't think about a "free" week of camp. Most 11 yr olds don't have any money for anything. Adults pay for everything so everything is free to them. Why would I want to sleep in a hot tent filled with bugs with a stranger for a week and eat lousy food. I can stay home and eat moms cooking and play video games. Sleep late and stay up late. Stupid suckers going to camp...

[Stosh 3452]

Eagle732,

 

My comments were not intended to "stir the pot". The boys were offered a free week at camp and they turned it down. The question that remains open is: Why?

 

The week was the only option and they didn't think it was worth it... for some reason unbeknownst to anyone other than the boys. There was no other option, just a free week at camp, that was a "take it or leave it choice." They chose leave it with no explanation.

 

Everyone else at camp had a good time last year, but these boys didn't think it worth investing a week of their time to go back. Again, it begs the question, Why?

 

Obviously the $$'s weren't an issue, so there is another reason.

 

I can offer a huge, free bag of candy to someone and they turn me down. Looking at the fact that it was free is irrelevant. If I knew they were diabetic, I would understand and next time offer them something else for free and maybe I'd get a taker. If they didn't like chocolate, that might be another reason. Next time I'd get different candy, etc.

 

I would seem from the title of the thread that the SM is trying to force a decision on a couple of boys that say, "Nope, not for me!" The SM wouldn't have posed the question not, "How to I force the boys to change their decision", to "Why would a boy turn down a free week at camp." to which everyone on the forum would have simply stated, "Go and ask them." This would imply that other alternatives might be in order. The Take it or Leave it choice of a free week at camp, just didn't cut it for these boys, WHY? What are they planning on doing the week the troop is at camp? Are their reasons valid?

 

If they are into sports, okay, I can understand, If they are into video games, okay, I can understand. If the family is going on vacation that week, okay, I can understand, but all of these "understandings" are prefaced on the answer I get when I ask the question, Why?

 

Stosh

 

 

[Eagle732 27]

I intend to ask why at the earliest opportunity.

Maybe some football coach told them Scouting wasn't cool.

[boomerscout 35]

So, how do you overcome inertia on their part when fear and possible discomfort may be part of the "problem"?

[Engineer61 19]

"So, how do you overcome inertia on their part when fear and possible discomfort may be part of the "problem"? "

 

Generally, with kids you don't.

 

If they are interested and see a value to going to camp. They will go. If not, they won't.

 

If you talk them into it, chances are they will spend a lot of time thinking about what they could have been doing besides picking up trash and preparing their tents for inspection.

 

Mine hated camp the first year...too busy...to much rushing around (so they wouldn't get homesick). So Mom had to really push buttons this year to get him to sign up... promised that it wouldn't be as rushed.

 

Scout's idea of camping, is setting up camp..a hike or two and sitting down to watch the world go by....not exactly what you get at summer camp.

[Stosh 3452]

I have always laid it out for the boys. Being a kid is easy, once they grow up they have to figure out finances, health problems, marriage and family issues, buying a house, etc. etc. all of which are far more difficult than going out and learning how to do it in Scouts.

 

I had one boy standing under the dining fly with me in a torrential downpour and he said he wished he were home. I said I was glad I was where I was because if I can live through that, I can live through anything. Every time we got rain from then on he would always say it was never as bad as it was that time we were under the fly, even at Philmont in a hail storm.

 

Stosh

 

 

[qwazse 4342]

Stosh's approach is a tough sell for a boy who sees his summer as his only spare time and camp as one more thing to get in the way of it. But it is better to make it clear to the boys that we are not ashamed about how we put them to work to tackle "cheerfulness challenges" that on a smaller scale reflect how they will have to deal with the rest of life. if they walk away, at least that last bit of guidance should stick with them.

 

When a young marine comes up and tells you that the orienteering lessons you thought he had ignored came handy to him in "The Crucible", you kinda get that you're doing the right thing.

[Stosh 3452]

quawze, I don't know it it's really a matter of filling up the only spare time for the kids. I see them do double duty to get a spot on the baseball team, tremendous commitment for musical drum corps that travel all over the nation, etc. It has a lot to do with the value of what the kids get out of it that over-rides the hard-sell competition of their spare time.

 

One does not need a lot of arm-twisting to get a kid into something that he's excited about. So this begs the question, why are these boys not excited about the opportunity to go to summer camp even for free? Is it the boys or is it the program? Unless one starts asking a lot of Why questions, one will never know.

 

Stosh