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News from National Meeitng no knots, no DEs

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Re the Knots:

While I do think that they do act as a carrot for some adults. Still, as far I'm concerned it's not a big deal if they remain or if they go.

The DE's?

Scouting in the UK has managed without an army of professional Scouter's, but that's over there and we are over here.

I haven't kept up to date with what a DE is paid.

I'm thinking it's about $35,000. Add a benefit package and the cost has to be in the $44,000. Range. (Feel free to disagree and correct me!)

That number is never going to go down.

With the ever declining membership coming up with the funds to pay a DE is becoming harder and harder and he or she will end up spending most of their time just trying to raise the money needed to ensure that they get paid.

I have a few very dear and close friends who work as professional Scouter's. I think the world of these guys.

Still in my book when it comes to anything to do with program or volunteers.

Volunteers should and are better served when they deal volunteer on volunteer.

If things are going as they should at the District level with a good active working District Committee then there really no need for a DE.

But good active working District committees are not the norm.

It's all fine and dandy to have great on line training's and beautiful publications but someone (A real person.) Needs to be tasked with looking at the wants and needs of each and every District and taking steps to ensure that they are up to doing the job of the District Committee.

This might mean having a Executive Board Member sit in on District Committee Meetings and ensuring that things get done right.

National might want to take a long hard look at the training's available for District Committees and revise and update these.

Councils might want to rethink any term limits that they have in place and set these so they work. The three year term we have in our Council is not long enough. I think it should be five years for District Chairmen.


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Thanks for the welcome to the forum. I have heard folks mentioning items seen on here for a long time, and after spending some time reading them, I just could not sit quiet when I would see things either mispoken or just wrong in my opinion.


Since someone earlier asked, and if it helps with any credibility, some of the official roles I have had the pleasure of serving both currently and formerly include:

Troop Committee Member, Webelos Leader, District & Council Training Team, FOS Chairman, Council Webmaster, Council, Area, Regional, & National Committee(s) and or Boards.


Outside of registered positions, some roles I have been lucky enough to fill include: Philmont & Sea Base Advisor, NSJ & WSJ Leader, PTC Faculty multiple times, NSJ Dept. Chair, Wood Badge Staffs, Numerous task forces, OA Section Advisor, and over 15 years of management roles in Summer Camps.


I personally elected to finally join the forums after seeing the bashing of BSA staff members. I have had the privilidge of working with many awesome people that give all they have to Scouting, and to lump all pro's as worthless and overpaid is just incorrect. Are there some that embarrass the movement, you betcha, but I have been blesssed to work with highly dedicated people at all levels of the BSA, include knowing our new Chief for almost 20 years.


When you have thousands of employees across the country, you are going to have some bums (at all levels), but for the most part, I have been lucky compared to some on this forum. I more than anything want the next generation of youth to have the experience that I was able to have and realize it takes a lot of people doing different roles to their best ability. This includes a host of volunteers and professionals that a scout may never see.


There are some amazing things going on within the BSA right now that I think will take years to make it all the way through. Some have been announced and some that will be announced in the coming months.


I look forward to discussing them in the future and debating what is working and what is not. (Of course not forgetting the 4th, 5th, and 6th points of the Scout Law)


I hope none of this came across as bragging, I never would have mentioned if not asked, but I do see the point that it helps with discussions when you have an idea of who you are talking to.


See you around the campfire!

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Neat and fluffy? Not very, but we're ok. I just happen to have a great guy as a DE. I seriously wish you could meet him and see what life is like on another plane of the organization to which we both belong.


And I honestly wish I could live in your woods for a while. I shouldn't make assumptions or criticisms without having some perspective, and for that I apologize. Actually it seems we may actually be aligned on some of our opinions regarding those concerned with their prestige rather than their duty to serve.


And I should appreciate the fact that this place could serve as a great venting board for someone dealing with the "beating the head against the wall" issues you experience. But it would also be nice to hear some of those good stories also about the youth you serve from time to time.



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We are lucky to have a couple very good DE's in our district. Glad to have them.


Early on BD accused me of being part of national, I'm impressed that theory was right with Bobwhite.

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There are different "levels" of professional within a Council...I think it's mainly a way to reward and retain the good ones, although the duties don't change much. An entry level DE right out of college makes about what Eamonn said. But the hours are horrendous, so they don't stay long once they figure out that they are working for less than minimum wage. Then there are Senior DEs, District Directors, Director of Field Services, Asst Scout Executives and SE. If you check your Council's IRS Form 990, it will list all employees making more than $50k per year. Last time I checked ours, it listed 2 people, and we are a 500 level council. One thing the pros are NOT, is overpaid, IMHO. And people need to remember that they are primarily "outside salesmen"...their primary mission in life is to increase donations, members, and units, not necessarily in that order. Program is what they do in their "spare time" if they can't get a capable volunteer to step up to the plate. I have always had a good relationship with my DEs...mutual respect and teamwork once we understand the ground rules.

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One question I have is are you paid by the National BSA or are all your regional, and national activites strictly volunteer? The reason I ask is that I have been on both sides as a DE & Sr. DE for almost five years and a volunteer for over 25 years. I too have worked some National people and while most are very pleasant, a few very knowledgable, all of them share one thing, the fear of losing their jobs if they don't toe the line and agree with everything their boss wants. I have sat in two National department meetings where the employees were told this is how we are going to implement these new changes without ever asking these dedicated employees what their opinions or ideas were before the policies were written.


Yes there are dedicated people at National but most of them have very little input into what is going on. I have worked for Bob Mazzucca as my first SE, met and talked with Wayne Brock twice. As far as my experience goes Mazzucca has always been in scouting for himself, his own self interests and to look prestigious, and it worked because he became CSE, even though he really never really cared much about the volunteers or the pro's working in the field to deliver the program.

Wayne Brock ,IMO, is a very nice and polite guy but lacks any real vision for the future of scouting or the tenacity to effect any real change. I hope I am wrong and he surprises us all but I am afraid he will be spending most of his time putting out all the fires Mazzucca created.

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I've yet to see a company or organization that was a democracy. When I started working in banking 31+ years ago, we officers were told in no uncertain terms that we were not to openly criticize the company or openly question a decision. We could do it behind closed doors with our management. Employers make decisions and tell employees what the official company position is. Fight them and you could end up out on the street looking for another job. Now, none of that is to say that good companies or organizations don't hire the best people they can, value their opinion and listen to them. But once the guy in charge sets the course, you back it or get out.

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This is not about criticizing the company standards but their methodology.

Every successful large company always takes input from their employees, and management who work daily with the specific issues before developing and mandating new procedures, that's standard business management 101. The BSA have employees and management who have never even been in the field coming up with some ridiculous and out of touch rules and publications for the volunteers who deliver the program daily and demand they be followed, the GSS22 comes to mind for example.


You worked for a bank, good for you, and we have all seen how extremely poor management has led the biggest financial institutions into the largest banking crisis and our country into the biggest recession in our history. If some whistleblowers at these banks had not come forward we would be in a worse recession than Europe. Look at JPM/Chase who have recently lost unaccounted for billions of dollars. The biggest mistake Obamas people did was to bail those jackals out and in turn gave the government money to their top executives as bonuses. Yeah that's the kind of example we want to follow as a country.

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