Basementdweller 608 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Eagle your talking council.......I get the cost of camps......I get office staff.... I am talking district only......The discussion was about charging each unit a couple of hundred dollars each to basically be a member of the district...... Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Basementdweller, I think the point people are making is that the "district" doesn't pay anything for anything. The district does not employ the DE, the council does. Same for the rest of the staff. If your "district" is going to charge units a fee, I would ask what it's going to be used for, too. At best, the answer would be that it is going to be used for things (like expenses for events) that the council now pays for, or should be paying for, or that should be coming out of the event fees. At worst, someone is trying to start their own little fiefdom and use the units' money to do it. Well, at worst-worst, someone is trying to line their pockets, hopefully that is not the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 " charging each unit a couple of hundred dollars each to basically be a member of the district" I have not heard of this and it's new to me. But maybe if the funding isn't coming from elsewhere and the Council needs the money? Maybe this is something that they are trying. I'm not sure what might happen to a unit that just says that they are not going to pay? Things like this really do drive home the need for units to make sure that their COR does attend the District Committee meetings and be willing to ask questions. I think if I were a volunteer in a unit, I might be tempted to have a word in the ear of the CO - After all it is technically, no change that! It is the CO's money. Maybe they don't want to donate to the Council, it isn't in any of the papers that they signed when they came on board. Ea. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 NJ.....that was my point as well. Eamon.....it was a discussion. Again our DE is very money grubbing.....The discussion included threats to his job, all though not my idea, I don't disagree.. The COR rep was there and was livid as well..... Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Just say no. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 No is not an option..... Journey to Exellence.....I had lots of help filling that out. FOS......Is also mandatory... Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Basementdweller DE's are in many ways a lot like salesmen. Much as we like the idea of some sort of Scouting Superman who at the drop of a hat will dash in and fix the Scouting wrongs of the world. The truth is that these guys while hired to support and help units are under constant pressure to bring home the bacon. The bacon being membership and money. Some DE's are lucky and work for bosses that do have a brain and understand that you can't get blood out of a stone. Some work for people who think just because they have said that it is that it has to be. It very well might be true that a DE who fails to meet the goals that he has been set might be let go. But in these times of financial hardship having to find and hire a new DE is an expense that most Councils can do without. The word mandatory in a volunteer upsets me when it has nothing to do with the safety and welfare of the Scouts we look after. In the District where I live we have a couple of Troops and Packs that long ago made it clear that they wanted no part of the District or the Council Sure the Troop attends summer camp and buys badges and whatever at the Scout Shop, they get their charters in on time each and every year. But they never have sold popcorn or allowed a FOS person to darken their door. They decided that they don't want and don't need the support of the District and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. The goals set for Districts are strange animals. Many come down from above. The SE attends a conference where the new idea is unfolded. The real truth is that the new idea is just the same as the old idea but dressed up differently. -No matter how they dress it National needs membership and needs Councils to be financially sound. What used to be Quality was the big thing, Councils and Districts bent over backward to get quality. SE's, DE's and all the other pros. Were under constant pressure, so much so that people started to cut corners and some untrustworthy sorts cheated. These cheats were caught and their cheating was a big embarrassment for us all. So quality had to go and the new idea is Journey to Excellence. All these ideas are dependent on the people who serve at the grass roots level buying into them. Some people think that these act as a good thing giving them goals and recognition for the hard work that they are doing. The District and the Council and the pros have a lot more riding on these than just a guide or a little recognition. So the real hard truth is that they need units to buy in and make them look good, meet their goals and shine when it comes time for promotion or a raise.Or in the case of your DE maybe keeping his job. What is the consequence if a unit doesn't fork over the cash? What can the Council do? My thinking is that there is not a darn thing. Sure some Councils try and sweeten the pot by offering a little carrot like free advancements. But for a Pack that's one small patch per year per Cub Scout. -Big deal! If it was decided that this fee was unfair and that it wasn't going to be paid. I think a letter from the CO saying that at this time we are not going to pay it would bring this to an end. As I said the $200 belongs to the CO. While I'm not a lawyer but I'd check to see if it is even legal for a charity to donate to another charity? I remember reading somewhere that this was one of the reasons why the rules for fund raising for Eagle Scout projects were changed. - I'm not sure, but I'd check. Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 FOS is mandatory? Do you mean the presentation or the giving to? BD, you do live in a different scouting world than that I do All I can say is its not like that everywhere, leastwise not where I live Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 charging each unit a couple of hundred dollars No way. Not going to fly. National won't allow that. Councils and districts can't charge a fee. I don't think they can make FOS mandatory, either. The only real lever that they have is that they can threaten to take away your charter. Would they really do that? I suppose if you got to be a complete thorn in their side, they might. But really? They want to keep boys registered. They need the numbers and the money. Still, I'd go along with the FOS presentation - it doesn't actually cost you anything. Link to post Share on other sites
00Eagle 32 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 My council charges an activity fee ($12 I think) for each scout on a charter to be paid during recharter in addition to the $15 national registration and $5 insurance (prorated lower this year due to a short charter year, Feb-Dec.). I'm not sure if this is allowed or if they just do it and get away with it.(This message has been edited by 00Eagle) Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 FOS presenter showed up uninvited to the B&G....After being told know... Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 > Don't keep us in suspense! What happened then? A former Cubmaster was famous for letting a district rep make their FOS pitch and then say to the crowd, "If you'd like to make a donation, we'll collect it at the next Pack meeting!" No money collected then! Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Here is a link to a document that appears on a council web site listing official BSA policies. http://www.bsacmc.org/BSA_Fundraising_Policies.pdfLocal Boy Scout councils are not allowed by the BSA to assess Scout membership fees.Councils are allowed to charge "activity fees", but the clear interpretation from the document is that an activity fee is the fee to participate in some particular activity, not just another name for a membership fee. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Thank you Oak I will be forwarding that to the district chair and DE..... Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I noticed the following in that document: "Local Packs, Troops and Crews do not exist without the local council." It's that sort of attitude that makes many people love their councils so much. But taking that statement as a "given", I think it would be a better world if the council-types (and national) recognized that the reverse is true as well. Some do, but some don't. Link to post Share on other sites
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