qwazse 4342 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Thanks for the history, 00E! (My, I miss hand-drawn path diagrams!) Precedent or not, anything's possible. But, I agree with BP. It's unlikely. As things stand now, there's just not a demand. BP, I bet your crew E-COH's have more young women participating (at the very least, as color guard). Which may generate more interest. If every crew operated like that (or, e.g., if my venturers were asked to contribute to the troop's ceremony), it night bump up interest in Eagle a little more. I think the reverse could happen, more venturers will chase venturing awards, increasing the name recognition for Ranger and Silver. Then someone will be posting the thread "Silver Award - Boys ever?" Ain't diversity grand? Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 "There was a precedent (~1954) for an alternative path to Eagle for explorers skipping first class for Bronze award explorers." Actually, those rules were in place going back earlier. Sea Scouts who earned certain Sea Scout ranks back in the 30s just had to complete some additional work to receive the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, and First Class rank, and from there go get Star, Life, and Eagle. The path show (which, btw are NOT 'hand drawn diagrams', they are taken from the literature of the time) actually gives a method for Explorers earning EITHER Explorer Bronze OR the Outdoor rating to go get Star, Life, Eagle in the 1950s. In the 1960 program, when they killed off the Explorer advancement program, they created yet another set of requirements that allowed Explorers to go straight to earning Eagle WITHOUT earning any prior Boy Scout advancement!!! This policy was dropped when they opened up Exploring to female participants in 1971, and went back to the old policy (in place since the 30s or so) of earning First Class in a troop and going to Star, Life, Eagle in the Post. This is ALL covered at my site: www.seniorscoutinghistory.org Link to post Share on other sites
UCEagle72 10 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Just because I like throwing gas on a die-ing fire ... My 16 year-old Venturing daughter recently received a questionnaire from Harris about allowing females to earn Eagle, should they be separate programs, etc. She showed it to me (anything Scouting, she shows to me) and asked how she should answer -- I told her, answer with *your* opinions ... they asked you, not me, so they want to know! Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 emb: ... NOT 'hand drawn diagrams' ... Sorry. Should have said 'graphic artist's analog rendering'! Thanks for the context. Link to post Share on other sites
CHLees3rd 10 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 "There's just not a demand." Are we sure about that? I have read posts about some Venturing aged girls stating that they are not interested, but has anyone asked any girls ages 10 and 11 if they would like the chance to earn the Eagle Scout award just like the boys have? I wonder if the have different goals than their older counterparts? I think it is the same as if we asked a 16 year old boy in Venturing who has no Boy Scouting experience if he wants to join and work extremely hard within a tight deadline to be an Eagle. He most likely will not be interested either. We are not asking the correct age group. I'm pretty sure that some of my Girl Scouts would jump at the chance with both feet to earn something as special and as well known as Eagle Scout given the option! I'm pretty sure their parents would be all for it too given the prestige of the Eagle Scout award. Chazz Lees Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm pretty sure that some of my Girl Scouts would jump at the chance with both feet to earn something as special and as well known as Eagle Scout given the option! thing is, Ithink they have the option to earn something as apecial as ES. Just saw the most BSA-connected young woman I know post her GS gold award on online. Just as proud as if it were an Eagle. As long as girls have the opportunity to earn that toward the end of their GS career, or as long as they can look forward to joining a crew to earn Venturing Silver, I don't see the demand growing. From an adult perspective, either of those on a young person's resume would command respect in my book. I suspect any military recruiter would be impressed with a Ranger award. Most girls I've seen who want to be part of their brother's or boyfriend's troop want to do so because there's something about the character of those particular boys or the activities they do that appeals to them. Medals are the the last thing on their mind. Link to post Share on other sites
CHLees3rd 10 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 qwazse, Youre talking about a high school girl who is not interested in Eagle. When troops go recruiting for members, they generally do not go to the local high school. Instead they go to the local pack with has elementary school aged boys who are eager for adventure and want to get on the Trail to Eagle. Who is to say that there are not any elementary school aged girls who also want adventure and to get on the Trail to Eagle? Since the BSA does not allow them to join, we never ask. And since we never ask, they never get to answer. Eventually they become high school aged students who couldnt care less about earning Eagle just like the boys! As for the specialness of the awards, I say that the Girl Scout who earned her Girl Scout Gold Award should be proud. It is the highest award that a Girl Scout Senior or Ambassador can attain; however, the Girl Scout Gold Award, the Eagle Scout Award and the Venturing Silver Award are all vastly different from one another. Each has different requirements which produce different products, and depending on the age of the award, each has a different prestige factor. Ask someone on the street about the 100 year old Eagle Scout Award and they most likely will not know exactly what is needed to earn it, but will know it take a certain something big to get it done. Ask someone on the street about the Girl Scout Gold Award, and the first thing they will think about is cookies because you said Girl Scout. Ask someone on the street about the Venturing Silver Award and youll probably get a blank stare. It is unfortunate because both the Girl Scout Gold Award and the Venturing Silver Award require much in order to be earned just like the Eagle Scout Award, yet the general public is clueless about them. This is what makes Eagle Scout special. The general public holds it in high esteem. Too bad the girls who would like to try for it are not allowed to earn it. If you are ever at a Pack meeting where WEBELOS are crossing over to troops and you see sisterly siblings there, ask them if they would be interested in doing the camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming Eagle Scouts like the boys. Just maybe you will hear the demand. Chazz Lees Link to post Share on other sites
Crew21_Adv 25 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Fellow Scouters, When my troop goes out recruiting for Boy Scouts. We don't promise them medals or Eagle. We promise them adventure and fun, if they want it. We tell the parents they will build character, citizenship and fitness. We will happily admit, if they really enjoy the trail, they will earn the Eagle Medal. Similarly for my Venturers, we promise them fun and adventure, along with character, citizenship and fitness. If they really get a kick out of the program, the can earn the Silver award or Ranger award. In 12 years within my Crew, we've had two Silvers, three Eagles, and recently had one Venturer earn her GS Gold award. Hopefully, after becoming Venturing Crew members (or the other girl siblings of our Scouts in middle/high school which are not members of any youth organizations) any Girls would like the ideals that Eagle Scout stands for. But I sincerely hope that is secondary to having fun and becoming a model citizen and building their character. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Chazz:If you are ever at a Pack meeting where WEBELOS are crossing over to troops and you see sisterly siblings there, ask them if they would be interested in doing the camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming Eagle Scouts like the boys. Just maybe you will hear the demand. Been there, done that four years ago. The girl's now in my crew working on her first bronze award. Her older brother is chipping away at those last few Eagle MB's. I'm just not seeing the demand from girls for Eagle as long as Sliver (which has a the bird on it and the same color ribbon) is available. The fact that one award has been around 90 years longer than the other doesn't factor into their calculus. In fact I can see the more "obscure award" being the conversation starter: Employer: "I see Venturing Silver on your resume`. What's that?" C21: But I sincerely hope that is secondary to having fun and becoming a model citizen and building their character. That is the bait-and-switch, isn't it? For some, the "bling" is more important than adventure, I think. Either can be fun. So, I encourage youth to pursue both. (Although by the numbers it would seem we're all about the adventure.) But, regardless, the end game is honing one's character. Link to post Share on other sites
CHLees3rd 10 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 qwazse, Just so I understand you properly, four years ago you attended a pack meeting and asked a girl, whom I assume was a sibling of a Cub Scout, if she would be interested in camping, hiking, swimming, etc. and maybe becoming an Eagle if the option was available, and she said yes to everything but no to becoming an Eagle if the option was available. Do I have it right? Apparently she didn't mind that you told her that she had to wait a few years until she was Venturing age to join and finally do the camping, hiking, swimming, etc? At least she is finally a member doing the things she wants to do. I hope she succeeds. As for no demand because of Venturing Silver, the demand was there over thirty years ago when I was a young Boy Scout. Girls in my class used to tell me how unfair it was that they could not join our organization and do the things we did including earning Eagle. I think high school girls today are just wise enough not to let themselves think about ever becoming Eagles because in all likelihood it will never happen. What bother putting themselves through such misery worrying about it. They just take advantage of what is available. Maybe if Eagle was available to them, then maybe you would see the demand. As for the interview question of "I see Venturing Silver on your resume`. What's that?" I think that is a great question and will go a long way to help Venturing finally get the recognition it deserves from the general public once employers stop following up the candidate's explanation with "So it is kinda like being an Eagle Scout?" Yes, some Venturers and Girl Scouts have told me that is what their interviewer said. Chazz Lees Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Actually, her father asked the question. "Would you like to be a venture scout someday?" (No, I didn't correct the guy. He was recruiting for me!) The awards that a Venturer could earn we're on a poster on the wall. I don't know if she made the connection at the time, but she never did ask if she could earn Eagle. There were plenty of GS patches to be earned at the time! When we were kids, I had no clue what the Exploring awards were. So yes, I'm sure our girlfriends felt they deserved access to Eagle. Some of them certainly did the same caliber of service and activity. I'm sure 10 year old scout sisters who don't have knowledge of venturing feel the same way. But BSA is promoting the program far more than it did Exploring, and that is clearly letting steam off of the co-Ed eagle pressure cooker! Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 As I understand it, those entering the US military are routinely offered a promotion if they earned the Eagle award. Does that apply to the Venturing Silver or other top awards offered by Girls Scouts and other youth groups? I suspect the US Navy would respect the Sea Scout top award --- Quartermaster or whatever it is.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer) Link to post Share on other sites
CHLees3rd 10 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Promotion to pay grade E-2 is available for Eagle Scout Award and Girl Scout Gold Award recipients I believe in all services. Promotion to E-3 in the Navy and Coast Guard for Sea Scouts who attain the Quartermaster Award. I am not aware of any promotions for the Venturing Silver Award or the Ranger Award. Chazz Lees Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Yep promos are standard. If I read the article correctly, there was a standing order from Nimitz that Sea Scout Quartermaster's after boot camp became a PO3. Link to post Share on other sites
CHLees3rd 10 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I found this online: http://www.navycs.com/navy-advanced-paygrade.html Eagle Scout, Sea Scout Quartermaster, Girl Scout Gold Award gets you pay grade E-3 in the U.S. Navy. Chazz Lees Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now