Scoutfish 16 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just had a random thought pop in my head. Not even 5 minutes ago, I was taking a load of clothes out of the bwashing machine and putting it in the dryer. I have no idea why I thought this, but my thought was : "Wow! If this really was a cold winter and we used a clothes line, I wonder how long it would take for clothes to dry - if they didn't freeze first? " Now, in case you were wondering, If this really was a cold winter refers to the fact that all of last week reached a daytime high of 70 degrees. Either Tues or Weds set a record of 76 degrees. Right noiw, my front door is open and it's 42 outside. So anyways, I started thinking about that clothes line and wondered - Isn't it my responcibility to use a clothesline whenever practical? Why waste the electricty when it isn't raining or freezing outsdie? Save electricity, save the earth? What about showers? Maybe in the summer or any time the temps are above 75, I should just use cold water only ( I have a well, so water comes out of the ground at a year round constant 57 degrees ) to keep electric use down. Sure, on the surface, it would save on my electric bill. But in the bigger picture, do I have a responsibility as a scouter to do this? I have no doubt you guys can come up with at least 100 other examples. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Scoutfish, Personal experience, they freeze and dry out anyway. It is a fairly simple energetic process. One of my courses addresses this question in several ways. You are thinking about a concept that is often termed 'net energy analysis'. This examines the direct and indirect dissipation of energy that is associated with a product or process from start to finish (cradle to grave in industry lingo). Your clothesline example is actually a great example of this. The EPA, back in the early 1970s, actually did the analysis and applied the analysis to a product that I currently use in one of my lectures on this topic: baby diapers. More specifically, how to choose between disposables or cloth. It's one of my favorite lectures because not only does it provide a vivid (and I DO mean vivid) demonstration of the principles, it absolutely destroys any illusions students have that babies are clean, quiet, convenient, etc. ...and thus providing indirect incentive for avoiding pregnancy until they really think they're ready for it. (as an aside, Beavah once jumped on my case for destroying this illusion, go figure) Anyway, without going into all the details, the EPA showed that cloth wins if using the clothes line. Energetically, the clothes line wins over every alternative except where restrictive covenants do not allow 'unsightly' clotheslines (who wants to look at their neighbor's underwear?) However, if drying using an electric dryer, disposable diapers have a slight edge over cloth. With a gas dryer, cloth has a slight edge over disposables. Keep in mind that this analysis is decades old, now, so the edge may have moved a little. Of course none of this takes into account intangibles such as the smell coming from that diaper pail.... Edit to add: just thought of an eleventh commandment: "Thou shalt not look at (view, covet?) they neighbor's underwear". Gotta work that one into lecture somehow.(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to post Share on other sites
CalicoPenn 729 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 No - you don't have a responsibility as a Scouter to do any of that. What you describe is more accurately categorized as Living Sustainably rather than Leave No Trace. The BSA doesn't officially teach sustainability the way they do leave no trace. As much as many would like it to be a responsibility just by being a human living on this Earth, it's really more of a matter between you and your own conscience. Now if the BSA were teaching sustainability, it might be a different matter, emphasis on might. I do believe that we doi have a responsibility to model what we teach in front of the Scouts. If we're teaching them LNT concepts and not following them ourselves when camping with the Scouts, then I believethat is a failure of our responsibility. The question becomes, do we have a responsibility as Scouters to follow LNT if we are not with our Scouts but rather on our own or with our families? I'd love to say definitively that yes we do but again, I think this is a matter between you and your own conscience. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I think Calico is correct..... How many times during the summer to you make dinner in the oven in the summer while running the air conditioning..... How many times is the TV left on while no one is in the room? How long are your showers?????? How much laundry detergent do you use? Hand wash your dishes or machine????? How far do you commute to work? How many refrigerators do you have in your house or garage? Do you have a stand alone freezer?? Is it efficient, when was the last time was it defrosted? How many TV's? Cable boxes??? do you unplug them when they are not in use???? how much of a vampire load, transformers, are left plugged in all the time????? I have my entire TV entertainment system on an outlet strip which gets turned off 20 hours a day. Computer is on an outlet strip which gets switched off. On and On. The list goes on and on? Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Lowering an "energy footprint" is conservation minded, but comes off a little too abstract for LNT. LNT is teaching your neighborhood kids that nobody else wants to find out what kind of candy they got at the corner store by seeing the wrapper on the side walk. Sure Johnny loves little Suzie, but carving her initials on that oak in the town park is not as cool as bringing her back 30 years from now to see a healthy unmarred tree still growing. At least, that's what the LNT mentality is all about. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleBeaver 10 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Doesn't this fall under the Citizenship aim of Scouting? As a citizen of this world, I have responsibility to the enduring health of my neighborhood - that being the planet. I present LNT workshops to scouts every year, but make sure to show that it's just one part of what we can do as good citizens. By the way, I put high-efficient windows in my home last year and am adding solar panels this spring. Don't know if it's the best thing to do, but it's something. Scout On PS: Cold? On this date, our record high was 49F in 1931. It's 18F right now and that's warm. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Agree sustainability is not the same as LNT. Dryers are by design highly inefficient appliances. That is why I have a very high spin cycle washer to extract as much water before hand as possible. I think it is a good thing to connect LNT with daily life. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 mn: Outdoorsmanship = Citizenship At least in my mind it does. Learning to respect the land you walk on puts you a good ways down the road in learning to respect the people who depend on it. Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ...and let us not forget "A Scout is Thrifty".... Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here it is again, that game... "what if..." What if I turned things off, What if I walked instead of drove... What if I slept under another blanket and lowered the thermostat another degree or two... http://www.earth-policy.org/ Cloth diapers vs disposable. Not only an economic/ecological decision, but one of philosophy and (dare I say it) faith? Stewardship for God's creation? Always thought I would have liked to try the Baby Box of Mr. Skinner, as being ecologically sound... http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp Link to post Share on other sites
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