System for holding POR responsible

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

In our next round of non-elected POR's we are attempting to create some kind of system for keeping boys accountable. I have been tasked by the SM to come up with something. It is my reward for complaining about the deadbeats.

 

The SM is busy working with SPL and PL's. The SPL's and PL's have been mostly busy with the Quartermasters and APl's. They get the rudimentary leadership training. The area that is not getting attention is all Chaplin's Aides, Librarians, Scribes, etc. Most are AWOL or minimally functioning and it hurts the Troop.

 

Right now they are given a form saying that they, and their parent understand they are taking on additional responsibilities. They are given the position description. Beyond that no one may talk to them until their SMC or POR and by then it is too late.

 

Our original plan was to have an adult counterpart for each position for guidance but we had too few volunteers.

 

Anyone do anything for this? It is a big Troop so we really need a good number of positions working. I am thinking some kind of one-on-one meeting a couple times a term asking them what they are planning and if they did it. Kinda like at work. The size of the Troop is such that even if some boys are doing their job I may never see it so don't know.

 

I assume at some point if I can figure out a good method I can train the boy leadership to do it and just check in with them.

 

In general the younger the scout the more conscientious in his duty. Partly this may be due to time conflicts and partly because the older boys were spoon fed before.

[Eagle92 110]

This is how the system worked in my old troop. The Leadership Corps, as the patrol of oler scouts who did the troop level PORs were callled, had the following requirement:

 

1) Had to be a First Class or above.

2) Had to be a PL for at least 6 months, preferably longer.

3) The current group had to vote you into the LC.

4) SPL to appoint you to a POR.

5) SM approved it.

 

 

That way folks who had been trained already were in the PORs and they had leadership expereince form their term as PL.

[fred8033 1591]

Never really cared for leadership corps, senior patrol, honor patrol or what ever you want to call it. Sure it works for some troops. Never cared for it myself.

 

Never cared for adults shadowing youth positions ... except maybe the quartermaster, maybe.

 

SPL should choose a good ASPL. ASPL should have clear responsibilities that includes overseeing the chaplain aides, librarians, scribes, etc. SPL works with ASPL to see that things are occuring. ASPL works with those positions to make sure things are happening.

 

Get the adults out of the picture as much as possible.

 

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

OK. We had 3 ASPL's none of whom did a darn thing. (3 was huge mistake--I was not involved in that)

 

Assume the ASPL needs to meet with these guys. Then it seems my plan should be to help train the ASPL to respond to the SPL and how to manage the POR's. Kinda like training a new supervisor.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I'd consider something like:

 

A display board with the names of various PORs listed. When someone is appointed to a position, their name and the date of their appointment is posted.

 

The SPL and Scoutmaster negotiate specific activities the appointed Scout needs to do to fulfill advancement requirements. You might consider posting those as well.

 

If a Scout isn't carrying out those duties, they aren't qualifying for time ingrade in that POR for advancement.

 

Activity could be an agenda item at monthly Patrol Leader meetings.

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I like the direction this is going.

 

The ASPL description does say "Helps train and supervise the troop scribe, quartermaster, instructor, librarian, historian, and chaplain's aide."

 

The leadership corp wouldn't work too well since 3 out of 5 PL's were pretty bad.

 

I like the listing. Another problem we had were folks too lazy to change their POR patch. Made it hard if I ever had a question.

 

Who supervises the Troop Guides? And if you do not have a New Scout Patrol do you need them?

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I am going to ask a really dumb question...

 

The ASPL position does not mention supervising Troop Guides, Scribes, Web Mastters, etc. Is the supervision implied?

[fred8033 1591]

This is the link I've seen for years.

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Boyscout-troop.gif

 

ASPL and SPL both supervise leaders. SPL --> PLs and TG. ASPL --> other youth leaders.

 

Troop guides are mainly used for new scout patrols, but can also be used to mentor new scouts or mentor skills.

 

There's no rule you need to fill all the positions. If you don't need them or can't find a way to productively use them, don't staff them. With that said, our troop does staff most if not all positions.

[Eagle92 110]

I don't know.

 

But using my troop's model as a reference, I would say it's implied. ASPL was the PL of the Leadership Corps. He's the one who worked them, made sure they did their jobs, mentored them when needed, etc. He was the only non-elected PL as he was apointed by the SPL.

 

I know every troop has it's own experiences, but when National did away with Leadership Corps in 1989, and created venture crews for the older scouts instead (and since 1998 called venture patrols) my troop continued with the LC model for the venture crew. When Venturing came out in 1998, the venture crew became a Venturing Crew, and still followed the old LC model, with the addition of 18-20yo ASMs being members. To my knowledge that was how the troop, and crew, operated until Katrina changed things.

 

EDITED:

Thanks for the link Fred.

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Got it:

 

SPL does PL and TG which makes more sense.

ASPL does the rest (if filled)

 

So I will propose the SM works with the SPL

I will work with the ASPL

[Venividi 35]

 

fred8033 has the correct approach. Problem you are faced with is how to get there when you have SPL's and ASPL's that aren't hold PL's and POR's responsible. Until the unit culture changes such that the SPL/ASPL agree that it IS there responsibility, and have the comfort level to hold their peers accountable and actually do it, this is a hard hill to climb. Especially if a) the scouts' motivation is to take a position as a requirement for advancement, and they get their checkmark in the box regardless of results or effort, b) the program still moves along because others stepped in to fill the gap, or c) the program wasn't dependent on the POR's (e.g. librarian or OA rep in many troops).

 

 

> Our original plan was to have an adult counterpart for each position for guidance but we had too few volunteers.

This is one approach to help move to a culture where POR holders see their responsibilities as necessary, and step up and do them. If you do not have a sufficient number of volunteers, then the solution is to only fill the POR's for which there are volunteers to provide guidance, and do not fill the remainder.

 

Another factor to use when filling POR's is a) coach the SPL to only appoint scouts to POR's that have demonstrated their ability by always pitching in without being asked.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Venividi,

 

You hit right on the head. What do we do until we get there.

 

The best candidates would be the new scouts. They are the ones showing up to help. I know it is not supposed to count until they are 1st Class but it would serve the older boys right...

[shortridge 184]

"I know it is not supposed to count until they are 1st Class but it would serve the older boys right..."

 

A lot of people have the misconception that you can't serve in a POR until you're First Class. Don't let the fact that it won't "count" until then stop you, or them. Is a Tenderfoot a natural leader for his friends? He should be the PL. Is there a Second Class Scout who wants to be Chaplain's Aide? Let him rip.

 

A bigger issue that your troop may need to address down the road is that these boy should be naturally carrying out their duties as an integral part of the unit and patrol program. So there shouldn't be any need to for a special system to hold them accountable.

 

>> Who says grace or leads interfaith services on campouts or provides moments of reflection now, if not the Chaplain Aide?

 

>> Who keeps track of resource books, MBPs, reference material and teaching aids if not the Librarian?

 

>> Who takes notes at the PLC and maintains dues and advancement records if not the Scribe? (If you have an adult "advancement coordinator" doing that right now - they've just been put out of a job.)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Venividi 35]

 

> I know it is not supposed to count until they are 1st Class but it would serve the older boys right...

 

By inference, I am assuming that "count" means "count towards rank advancement". I think that this may be the major source of your problem. Both scouts and adults may be viewing POR's (and possibly most other activities) as something that is done to "count", rather than something that is done because it helps the troop/patrol/scouts, and good citizens therefore step in to help there fellow scouts. Its a "me" problem, as in "whats in it for me".

 

From a distance, (which provides for imperfect analysis and vision), your troop may have an Animal Farm view of the advancement method ("All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." )

[Eagle92 110]

There are no national rank requirements for any POR, not even Den Chief.

 

That said I know the troops I've been with have usually put First Class for SPL, ASPL, and other troop level jobs. HOWEVER if you need to put a Tenderfoot in a job because they can do it, and do it right, What's stopping you.

 

The troops that I've been with, with the exception of one, have been established units with long histories. So the leadership culture has been there.

 

But if you are starting from scratch, or restarting a unit, you use your best scouts to get the jobs done, irregardless of rank. And if the rankign scouts complain, tell them the truth, the younger guy is doing a better job, and that unless they start performing as well, if not better, you won't reccommend to the SPL that they take the jobs.