where its written

[lrsap 10]

There have been many times on this forum where someone posts a question based on what another person said is a "rule". The advice most commonly given is to ask the person quoting the questionable rule is "tell me where its written". I happen to think this is fantastic advice.

 

But the scenario I believe all of us envision is an adult-to-adult conversation. How would you feel if, in your role as adult leader, a youth presents the same challenge to you when you speak of a Scouting "rule"? Are we above reproach, never to be questioned by the youth we lead? Or can we swallow our pride and handle to ego bruise when a boy happened to be correct where we were wrong? And how do we react when we were correct and the Scout was wrong, and we can in fact show them where its written?

 

My original thought is that I would have no with a Scout challenging me to back up what I say provided he did so in a respectful manner. But then it occurred to me, shouldn't we be doing this when engaging in this type of conversation with each other?

 

[Beavah 205]

How would you feel if, in your role as adult leader, a youth presents the same challenge to you when you speak of a Scouting "rule"?

 

What, yeh mean that somewhere there are scouts that don't challenge rules? Better not let that secret get out.

 

I think da difference is that scouters workin' in units don't generally write rules down. Leastways, not unless they're in one of those units that has a 250 page unit bylaws/handbook thing. It's just an adult or SPL or PLC that has program authority for that group that makes da rules. Challenges are fine for da most part, but they're more based on reasoning ("Why is this a good rule?") than whether the person actually has a written authority.

 

Most of the BSA-rule stuff happens when some trainer or other district or council scouter dreams up some new thing and then falsely claims that it's a BSA rule. Sometimes that happens at units, too, eh? I reckon it's generally because the person doesn't really have the gumption to be honest and just stand on his/her own two feet and say they'd like to do it this way for this reason. Instead they want to appeal to "authority". Usin' the old "Where's it written?" line sometimes works to get 'em off your case, but da real problem is re-educatin' (or removin') them so that yeh get a more service-minded, principled, or rational approach.

 

Beavah

 

[FScouter 24]

Gee Beavah, wasn't it you just a few minutes ago that told us that marshmallow guns are banned?? How do we get you re-educated or removed?

[Oak Tree 15]

Are we above reproach, never to be questioned by the youth we lead?

 

Ask away, ye Scouts! Feel free to talk and discuss and question. If it's a rule that I tell you is a real, written rule, I'll find you the reference. In the meantime, get along and follow the rule cause I say so - but if it turns out I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologize.

 

First off, naturally, through the wisdom of the forum, I am hardly ever wrong :-) But more importantly, I respect those who admit their mistakes much more than those who aren't willing to think they might be wrong. I *know* the Scouts will respect me more, not less, if I admit a mistake.

[moosetracker 132]

Everyone who tells you something is a BSA rule is not lieing because the person doesn't really have the gumption to be honest and just stand on his/her own two feet.

 

In fact I would say the majority is not.. They are in need of some re-educating, that is all. Most people toting the "BSA rule" is because someone else told them it was a rule, who heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else. The myth could have been started by a person without gumption to be homest or by someone who has been in a troop following a rule so long in standing they just don't know where it came from and everyone in the troop doesn't remember it was a unit policy, so have come to figure it must be a national policy..

 

Maybe it is my viewpoint due to my own personal experience. But my husband and I needed alot of "retraining" after leaving a troop that had alot of BSA rules. We went to a newer troop and proclaimed the BSA rules, and those people being new, did not question what we proclaimed.. Then we went to another troop, and got out for more training and started learning all the falsehoods we were spreading..

 

Now their were so MANY BSA rules that were not true, coming from this first troop we were in. I tend to think there was a gentlemen who was probably engineering his own BSA rules.. But had it been one or two, I would think it was that he too had been given some false statement that he truely believed made sense, or at least trusted the source of, and then passed it on.