Transitioning Cub Scout with AOL to Boy Scouts

[hmidgley 10]

I am working on a research project, "Investigation why Cub Scouts who earn the rank of Arrow of Light dont go into Boy Scouts" for my Doctoral thesis for Commissioner College and I would like to gather some information. The retention rate of Cubs with AOL to Boy Scouts has risen in recent years but we still lose a large number of boys. Below are a few questions that will provide helpful information. The information will be combined and no Troop or personal information will be included in the report without written permission. If you want to send me a private email my address is below.

 

Thank you for any assistance

Harry Midgley

BSACommis@gmail.com

 

 

Based upon your Scouting experience please answer the following questions

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

[resqman 108]

Based upon your Scouting experience please answer the following questions

 

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

Yes

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

The troop does not have a "feeder" pack. We send email to the leadership of about 4-5 Packs in the area that we are holding a Webelos invitiation campout at a nearby state park in Novmember. We remind them that it will complete the requirements for AOL regarding visting a troop or particpating in a troop activity. The troop goes out Friday nite and camps. The Webelos and families are invited for Saturday & Sunday. We encourage them to campout with the troop. Saturday various stations are setup and taught by the Boy Scouts. Knife & Axe, Ropes & Knots, Fire Starting, Box Oven Making, Leatherworking, First Aid, Map & Compass, 10 Essentials Kit.

 

For lunch, the vistors make a couple of box ovens. They spoon pizza sause on a tortilla, sprinkle cheese and pepperoni on top. They place in the box ovens they just made and cook them. Then they eat the pizza for lunch. Make the oven, Make the Pizza, Eat the Pizza. Cooking your own meal is a big deal to most Webelos. Having no adult intervention in the entire process of oven making, preparing, cooking, and eating is a big deal.

 

The troop leadership cooks a traditional Thanksgiving meal at the campsite Saturday evening. We usually cook 3 turkeys in dutch ovens, 1 turkey in a trash can, and smoke another turkey. Breads are usually cooked in the box ovens made earlier in the day. Patrols make various side dishes. 4-5 cobblers are made in dutch ovens. Parents, Webleos and troop all eat together. Campfire is held and may include a flag retirement ceremony.

 

The SM invites all visting adults to a Q&A about the troop and Boy Scouting. He explains the basic difference between Adult Led Cub vs. Boy Lead Boy Scouts. The visiting parents see that troop adults spent most of their time watching the birds cook and the Boy Scouts ran all other activities.

 

Success depends on turnout for the weekend. 2010 we had 10 join, 2009 Zero, 2008 14, 2007 16. We usually have 15-20 Webelos attend the campout. 2009 only 3 attended due to conflict with Pack schedules.

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

We do not have a "feeder Pack". We only "poach" cubs from other packs to hear it be told from the other troops. We draw from 4-5 Packs.

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

The council has sent several prospective scouts to visit our troop. They often have no prior scouting experience. Some are transfers from out of state. Troop down the road had some issues a few years back. Several transfered to our troop as a result.

 

Any additional information will be very helpful.

We believe our overall program encourages vistors to choose our troop. We also make it clear that we encourage Webelos to visit several troops because they each have their own culture. We want them to join Boy Scouts, not just our troop.

 

We are frank about the costs. Scouting is not free. We tell parents what to expect in average costs for camping trips, dues, etc for a year. We also warn them that in 3-4 years their scout will want to go on a high adventure trip at about $1500 per scout. We explain that each year the troop sends at least one crew to one of the three National High Adventure camps and we attend summer camp every year($225).

 

We are a fully uniformed troop. We have at least 4-5 uniformed and trained ASMs at every troop meeting. We have at least 4 leaders who have completed Wood Badge. On paper we have all the credentials that parents would expect of a troop.

 

The reasons to NOT choose our troop include wrong meeting night, cost, uniforming, parental involvment, and too active.

 

Why AOL scouts don't join Boy Scouts may not be fully answered by your survey questions. 5 years of boring Cub Scout programs may be enough and spending more time in scouts may not seen worthwhile.

[moosetracker 132]

Ok.. I have been out of a troop, and only at district leader for 2 years, so my info is a little dated and you can choose to use it or not.

 

 

 

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

 

Yes.

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

 

We invited them to 2 different campouts.. One similar to resqman is a thanksgiving campout.. Turkeys have been dutch oven, deep fried and trash can. Another is usually the Fall camporee. Pretty successful with about 90% crossing over, but then will loose about 25% befor the year is out.

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

 

We only recruit from our feeder pack..

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

I think part of what resqman is refering to was discussed in a recent conversation that went on.

 

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=318679

 

Anyway alot of us here belive that if a DL has been with a den since tiger a) they are burnt out.. b) they may have been great at running the younger dens, but not the right personality/skills to run webelos.. c) There is no good training to get them to understand the way the Webelos program should be run differently (and the moving of the CS specifics course is much worse at explaining the differences then the in-person course, but if they have been DL for the other dens, most likely these people were not going to to the specifics course thinking there was nothing new to learn.

 

If Webelos do not drop out during the Webelos years, they a) don't want to continue into the troop, enough is enough.. b) aren't prepared for the differences of the Boy Scout program, since their Webelos was not a transition into what to expect from a troop..

 

 

[qwazse 4344]

1. Yes

2. We provide den chiefs and invite webelo's from our pack and feeder pack to meetings/activities we think they may enjoy. Success ranges from 100% to 0% depending on the year.

3. We used to just focus on the Pack our CO supports.

4. Even with have a feeder pack, sooner or later that transition will fail. (E.g., this year they all went to a new troop starting nearby.) We try to do a presentation to 6th graders at the local public school. We encourage scouts to think about their friends who may like this stuff, and invite them to a meeting. (BTW, the boys do this with no thought for meeting some requirement or earning another patch. If they won't do this it is probably because your program stinks.)

 

We also try to make sure eagle projects get the public attention they deserve.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello qwazse,

 

 

In my experience an effective recruiting method in the spring is to get permission to visit elementary schools at lunch and talk to 5th and 6th graders about hiking, camping and summer camp activities.

 

There are quite a few who will be interested. You can hand out flyers inviting them to a recruiting night and/or have them fill out a 3x5 card with their name and phone number so you can contact them later.

 

District Executives or District Membership Committee Members may be in schools already recruiting Cub Scouts. It's a minimum additional effort to have them stick around to talk to 5th and 6th graders as well.

[Engineer61 19]

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

 

Yes.

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

 

Promoting troop at Cub Meetings, Webelos Campout, Open Meeting Nights.

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

 

Varies.

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

 

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

Some Cubs consider AOL to be a "graduation ceremony" and an end to Scouting, not a transition point to more Scouting.

 

Many adults do as well. My Scout's best friend (and parents) viewed it that way... "I'm glad that's over with..."

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

1.Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

 

Yes, but it is pretty casual. We do two camp-outs where we accommodate them. A nearby troop is very aggressive and we have had to step up our game.

 

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

 

The most effective is when the Scout Master talks to them personally. I would say that was 70% effective.

 

The Webes got to start fires and work with saws at their campout. That was 50%.

 

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

 

2-3. We have one feeder. A nearby Troop folded and 1/2 their Webes come to us the other 1.2 to our competitor. I think the "fussier" parents go to the other Troop. We also get some from a third group. All 3 Packs are Elementry school based

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

 

 

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

We have 80 scouts listed with 55 actives. We get 12+ newbies a year...typically a patrol from each school. Get 3-5 walk-ins a year as well. We produce 4-6 Eagles a year.

 

We do a lot more camping than neighboring Troops and have a lot of parents helping out.

 

[Basementdweller 608]

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

Yes, Multiple packs

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

Lots of direct contact, several recruiting campouts. Main feeder pack, webelos participate in the opening and closings.

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

we recruit from 3 packs and get 10-15 new scouts a year.

 

IMO it is very important for the boys and parents not be lead to believe this is the end of anything.... Many of our parents were surprised that they needed to fill out a new application when transferring to the troop.

 

the troop needs to have an exciting program......give the potential scouts a calendar...

[Eagle92 110]

Been a while since I was with a troop, but here it goes.

 

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

Yes

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

Can't give you percentages, but here are the methods.

A) Den Chiefs when possible.

B) Cool activity planned for their visit. Best ones have included SWAT and Search and rescue teams. Also did a science museum visit, specifically a planetarium

C) Annual Wilderness Survival Campout. Divide them into the existing patrols, teach them how to do lashings and build shelters. Lots of utensil-less cooking.

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

Varied. Initially it was where ever we had a DC. Eventually the troop moved to a CO that had a Pack, and we recruited exclusively form them. Also took alot of transfers as well. We had a good reputation as a 'Hiking and Camping Troop"

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

At one point we did a lot of "word of mouth recruiting" getting friends, relatives, and transfers.

 

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

Most kids want adventure keep the outing in scouting. let the scouts do the talking, not the adults.

[qwazse 4344]

SP - Our 5th graders are elementary. 6th are middle school (which shares a building with the high school). DE's have had lackluster results compared to one of our own MC's and a couple boys (who wouldn't mind ducking out of their High School) to pay a visit.

[Basementdweller 608]

So why don't troops recruit webelos 1's???

 

IMO the Troops should begin recruiting from wolf on......Our SPL is the king of all scouts in the eyes of the Cubs. The little guys hang around him like groupies......he plays the part well.....last time they hiked with us he showed up in his uniform, BSA ball hat spiffy sun glasses...He played kickball with the cubs during lunch...... That single day did more for our recruiting than any boy talk in the world.

 

Every cub that day left with a new big brother.

 

Completely accidental but worked beautifully.

 

Smiling retelling it.

[bear dad 13]

Good question B.D.,

I often wonder that myself. In the time my son has been a Webelos everytime I vist a troop they ask is he a 1st or 2nd year?

Who Cares, is my honest response that I want to say to them.

Know they assoicate it when how soon a boy could join, but if thats all they look at, they are shooting themselves in foot about getting new boys. Instead of asking them what year there are, Thank them for showing a interest in their troop.

 

Make a impression to cubs about your troop so they can't wait till they can join. Maybe this will help everyone involved.

[qwazse 4344]

Bd and bd,

 

Thanks for those opinions. I never thought that question would wrankle anyone. (I treat it as more like the scouting equivalent of "What's your major?").

I don't think our troup treats W-I's and W-II's any differently, but I'll have to look at that the next time we host some cubs.

 

I agree a solid friendship with a scout means the world to a cub (and his parents). It does not always transfer into sucessful recruitment, but it's a good idea on principle alone.

[hmidgley 10]

I would like to thank everyone for their candid responses. There is a lot of good information and I hope more will come in.

 

Thanks again,

 

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

Based upon your Scouting experience please answer the following questions

1. Does your Troop actively recruit 2nd year Webelos Cub Scouts?

 

Yes

 

2. If it does what methods are used and what is the approximate success percentage per method?

 

We host two camp outs a year for this purpose, attend the district Webelo to scout weekends, with displays. We also make it known that any Webelo, first or second year, may attend any meeting, solo, or with his den. We provide Den chiefs, and offer an open invitation for any Webelo 2, with parent, to attend any non-high adventure event with us. BTW, webelo visitors are put in the patrols, and treated just line all other scouts. We also make ourselves available to conduct any, or all, of the crossover program for any pack. We have three ASMs that also hold positions in the packs we actively recruit from, and have scouts on staff for all cub events.

 

We actively recruit from two packs, and passively recruit from all in our district. Its difficult to divide success per method, as our approach is holistic. Independently, these methods would be far less effective.

 

Of the two packs we actively recruit from, we obtained 6 of 6 2nd year Webelo scouts from one pack, and 3 out of 7 from the other. The first pack has a top notch program, and second a poor program. The 4 of 7 scouts we did not get out of the 2nd pack, did not continue with scouting. We also obtained 4 additional scouts from other packs via passive recruiting.

 

 

3. On average how many Cub Packs does your Troop recruit?

 

We actively recruit from two packs.

 

4. If the Troop does not recruit where do find your new Boy Scouts?

Any additional information will be very helpful.

 

We actively recruit, making every effort to make build strong, healthy, relationships with local packs.

 

 

 

 

My two cents:

 

Ive seen plenty of this. Im an ADC, who has provided unit service for several years. Im also a ASM, who just finished two years as a Park Trainer. This is something Ive spend some time looking at, and I hope I have some useful insight.

 

Like with most other issues, Ive found the issue stems from a few different sources. In short, heres the list:

 

1. Packs that dont camp, and avoid outdoor events

2. A Webelo program that does not prepare scouts for the transition

3. Umbrella parents who arent comfortable with the transition away from the parent and child model

4. Conflicting activities causing time/resource shortages

5. Packs that bill award of the AoL award as a graduation, an end of the program

 

Three out of these five can be prevented by a quality program. Possibly four out of the five, as confidence and trust can be earned by a troop, if they have a strong relationship with the pack, and more importantly the Webelo den.