wmjivey 10 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Read this article yesterday http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale /articles/2011/05/26 /20110526phoenix-cub-scout-pack-refugees.html ,About a man who started a Cub Scout pack for a group of refugee children and recieved the Councils blessing to include girls. Have other Councils been allowing girls into Scouting and I have been living under a rock? (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to post Share on other sites
5yearscouter 52 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I'll have to call Joseph Curtis and find out more about it. He used to be my DE and is now field director in Grand Canyon Council. Very interesting stuff! Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Seems a bit iffy to me. The pictures show a boy with a Bear Cub Scout necker in a tan shirt. The story mentions 13 year olds in a Cub Scout Pack. Not possible. The 13 year old boys and girls can be in a Venturing Crew, but not registered as Cub Scouts. It sounds more like this is some sort of Learning For Life group doing their own thing program-wise. Also, the article stated that there is no Scouting in Africa, however that is not true. There are Sea Scout, Boy Scout, and Girl Guide organizations throughout Africa. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 ScoutNut if you click on the "more photos" you will see a mini slide show that does show a few pictures of the girls one labeled "May Weah, 10, paints her Pinewood Derby car..." .. I think they are using whatever uniforms have gotten donated as some are in cub scout uniforms, some in boy scout uniforms, none are in venturing uniforms.. Interesting stuff.. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Well, as we know, some venturers have this attitude about uniforms ... But I'm inclined to think this is a group registered as a pack and promoting itself as such. They either don't officially register the girls, or make it happen through lots of hoop jumping. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I think I understand the underlying notion here. Opening Scouting up to all siblings in a family will help introduce the entire family to Scouting much more easily and quickly than just one kid at a time. Overall, it's an excellent goal. But it instantly raises the question - why stop at new immigrants? What is it about this small Arizona refugee community that makes things different, aside from having a sponsor? Why couldn't the same approach work for military kids on an Air Force base in Virginia? Or Hispanic children in a Texas border town? Or a small group of children in an isolated Alaskan community? Seems like a hugely slippery slope that sends mixed messages to volunteers around the rest of the country who have been asked similar questions: "Why can't my daughter join the pack/troop, too?" Also, I don't comprehend the logic behind the uniforms. The donation theory doesn't hold water, as they look all brand-new - it's not like they were taking whatever they could grab off the racks at the Salvation Army. So unless some wealthy benefactor just breezed through the Scout Shop indiscriminately grabbing armfuls of stuff (but not neckerchief slides, I notice), it doesn't make a whit of sense. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3655 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 "Why can't my daughter join the pack/troop, too?" I wonder if the BSA is heading past the coed unit and onward to Family Scouting of America with "Big Box" units. Have the whole family at the same meeting and pack-up everyone for a car camping "scout" outing at one our fine BSA-approved council camps but leave the dog home. I would be long gone. My $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 The article states that the Feldmans, who started this unit, purchased the uniforms for the youth. From the pictures they seem to have simply purchased whatever fit, or was in stock/on sale at the time. No matter what the council Field Director states, there is no way for the BSA computer system to register a 13 year old, seventh grade girl, as a member of a BSA Cub Scout Pack. This Pack is not on the "beascout" web site as a chartered Cub Scout Pack. The only way that this group could work would be if it was registered under Learning For Life, and possibly also ScoutReach. Once they got the girls and boys registered the Feldmans seem to have combined various aspects of different BSA programs. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Wow the compassion here is staggering.... Looks like he is just running the cub program.... We had a babysitting program....that has become a sibling den. Yes unregistered, unofficial but it works and the girls love it. Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Basementdweller: I don't mean to be without compassion. I am a woman, but I have two sons. And the thing of it is, is that most of life for a kid this days is much more geared towards girls than boys. Take school for instance. They demand that kids sit still for HOURS at a time paying attention and doing work at their desks. There's only 20 mins of recess. How can anyone honestly expect a boy to do that without acting out? Even sports get girlysized. In PE they can no longer play dodgeball, or tag since someone might get hurt. I look forward to their scouting moments when they can be BOYS. They can be rough and tumble, they can do cool and gross boy stuff. They can use knives and play boy sports and build fires and get dirty and dissect owl poop and pound a disc of metal with a hammer to make a "bowl". If BSA becomes co-ed, how long before they "tame" all those activities? How long before the pinewood derby gives way to a cookie making contest? How long before the whittling chip gets replaced with a sewing chip? And please don't get me wrong and assume that I think that cooking and sewing are not meant for boys. Of course they are. But boys need a chance to be BOYS. And do BOY'S stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Not saying that what they are doing is somehow wrong at all. If it is helping these youth then more power to them. Just saying that there should be no worries about BSA suddenly changing it's national membership requirements for Cub Scouts based on this group. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutLass 10 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I don't know anything about this pack beyond what's stated in the article. If the article is factually correct, my guess is this is a one-off due to special circumstances. As for a Bear in a tan shirt, that could be finance thing. Why buy a blue shirt when the boy is moving up to the tan in a couple of months. Maybe he had already outgrown his blue so they just stuck him in the tan since they had one in his size. Maybe all they bought were tan shirts and got them last year when they were on sale at the scout shop for $7. Don't know, so not gonna judge. The kids depicted likely were not in a part of Africa with scouting, since they are from refugee areas. This alone could be the main reason both boys and girls are allowed, since splitting up siblings for even the short period of time it takes for a den meeting could be hard on kids that have survived what they likely have and who have probably already lost close family members. Personally, I refuse to judge them on the limited information available. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 momof2cubs - What makes you think girls want to sit for hours and study, don't like to bang things, and disect Owl poop?.. Maybe you state boys can cook and sew, but you make it perfectly clear that girls can't like boy type activities.. In truth there are alot more tomboys out there, girls who like to tinker with cars & play football, then there are boys who enjoy sewing.. And the cooking part is really neutral gender.. Many boys can get interested in Dutch Oven cooking, or other camp cooking.. And the best chefs usually do turn out to be Men.. They may have started there interest as boys. Not to say the Boy scouts should spend a patrol meeting baking cookies, but they can do great cooking competitions between patrols & other Troops while on a campout.. We have gone down the road on other threads about co-ed Boy Scouts.. I know there are some who don't want it, and I can understand some arguement that the girls mature faster and can more easily take on leadership positions, that boys might sit back and not do if not neccessary.. But, as for the girls will sissy-fy the program.. A) BSA is being sissy-fy without girls being in the program due to the parents fears and tendency to sue for a small cut.. B) Venturing is not sissy-fied.. C) The British Scouting program has gone co-ed as has other countries and has not been sissy-fied either.. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I have some news for you.....BSA is coed. We have a fantastic very active coed crew at our CO. Our Pack has a Dude dessert contest.....men and scouts only......I help make a lot of cakes that week. guess my kids school is the exception than......they have three recesses or breaks a day.....they play dodge ball, trampoline and even red rover during PE. Both come home from school with the badges, bruises and abrasion, of the rough and tumble I expect from them. Your probably not going to laugh my daughter, at 7 years old, is infinitely tougher than any Cub scout and most boy scouts I have ever met including my son........She can catch skinks, frogs, toads and salamanders with the best of them. I am very proud of her and her outdoor skills, I could go on and on, But I would just be a dad bragging. In my opinion, while she has participated in cub scouting with her brother, it is a shame she cannot be officially recognized. I support Cub scouting being coed. Not dumbing down the program or changing it for girls, then it would be Girls Scouts and that is not what most girls want. The only think that is lacking is the transition from cubs to venturing. Girls do not belong in the Boy Scout Program, no idea the hows and whats.....just sayin... Link to post Share on other sites
BadenP 93 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I think scoutnut is right that this is some sort of LFL program doing their own thing wearing what they want, and to attract more hispanic kids. However folks you are probably looking at the precursor of things to come if the CSE gets his way. A coed laid back program with minimal to no uniforming and no detailed set program other than to just have fun. Kinda sounds like the Cub Scout soccer program that never took off. When and if this thing becomes a reality the BSA as we know it will cease to exsist. I wonder just how many scouters will still continue to volunteer their time after the change over? Link to post Share on other sites
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