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sgk8102

adult alcohol use

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Don't forget, they are parents and anything you do to discourage them from coming is VERBOTEN.

 

Sorry, I could not resist.

 

If they cannot not drink then they cannot come on the activities.

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I've been in situations like this and made exceptions. But it sounds like these guys want a routine. Also tent walls are thin. Boys will catch on.

 

Did they have a designated driver?

How many cold ones?

Do they realize that there are troops who've lost drivers because of DUI?

Do they know they could have an adults-only affair on their own time?

 

If your COR does not have a zero-tolerance policy, it's up to the adults in the troop to decide how much is too much. Here may be a polite way to pull in the reigns:

 

Does your troop try to do the patrol method? Require the boys (your chuckwagon patrol) to go resupply. The dads are along as drivers. The boys hold the money. They do the shopping. They schedule for precisely how long they will be away.

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Our DE suggested that making things fun for parents and adults was as necessary as making things fun for boys. He gave as an illustration having wine after a committee meeting.

 

I tried that on one occasion and we had a wine tasting party after concluding a committee meeting at someone's home. That proved to be a fun activity, although I haven't repeated it.

 

Along the same lines, I've held pack committee meetings at Starbucks for 2 1/2 years and always had reasonable attendance. You don't need to schedule the meeting, the place is always open and those who want to buy a treat for themselves can do so. Those that don't, don't.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

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sgk8102 - You stated - "The men seemed to have gone to the bar for a few "quick ones"

 

and

 

"They were not in uniform. When they returned, they were not overtly intoxicated or impaired. Those of us who remained at camp would have no reason to suspect that they had gone drinking, but for the fact that they felt the need to tell us."

 

Your comment "seemed", along with the fact you did not smell any liquor on their breath when they returned, leads me to wonder if what they did in fact do was just simply find a great bar. It could have been next to the store they went to for the supplies and they went in to check it out. Just because they said they found a bar does not mean that they were drinking in it.

 

They were talked to about bringing alcohol into camp. This they did not do. They followed the rules.

 

They were not in uniform, so they were not representing Boy Scouts while in the bar.

 

They were not camping with the Troop. They were there for only part of the day, and only for a little while after they returned from the supply run. They did not drive the Scouts anywhere.

 

Even IF they had indulged in a beer while checking out the bar, I really doubt they felt they had broken any rules doing so.

 

Not knowing what your position is in the Troop, I would recommend to the Scoutmaster(SM), and the Committee Chair(CC), that one, or both together, have a private, friendly, talk with these fellows and explain to them FULLY that they are not to be indulging in any alcohol consumption of any kind while on any Scout outing, even if it is for a short duration. Explain that this means in the campsite, off of the campsite, with Scouts present, without Scouts present, and any time they have, or have the potential of having, any Scout in their car. They seem to be a bit clueless, and need to have things completely spelled out for them.

 

There is no need to bring in any ASM's, or any other volunteers. This is between the unit heads and the specific men in question only. The only one, other than SM, or CC, who might be involved would be the Charter Organization Representative(COR).

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To bring this conversation to a similar yet different place, what about members of a Summer Camp Staff that leave camp on weeknights to go to the bar.

 

They're not on camp property, not in uniform or staff shirts, and "off-duty".

 

Camp Directors know better than to let more Camp Staffers leave camp than would be needed in an emergency situation, and so that's not at issue.

 

So the point here being, is this unacceptable since only this small group that goes to the bar on weeknights knows and doesn't share stories of this activity with anyone but amongst themselves?

 

 

 

My personal opinion is that it shouldn't happen, as it sets a precedent and example for younger staffers (who are not stupid).

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[grabbing the side of my desk and pulling myself up off the floor]

 

I deal with this on a regular basis. I do cooler inspections and ask the parents to return the offending beverage to their car.

 

I would also tell them to drive them back home then return. The car is only as far away as the parking lot.

 

 

 

 

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The distinction I'd make is a simple one. No one is to come to, and certainly not drive to/from, any scouting activity after consuming an alcoholic beverage. Not only are we charged with the safety, but also the guidance, of the scouts. What example we set, the scouts will follow. Set the adults straight, tell them dry on events, or find somewhere else to go.

 

Drinking before an event is not okay. Drinking at an event, even if away from scouts, is a one strike and youre out in my book. Drinking after a scout event, is just that, after an event .

 

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BS-87 - If they are all legal drinking age, on their own time, and there is no camp rule against it, I do not see any problem.

 

If the camp has rules requiring the staff to be onsite at all times, or has rules specifying what staffers can, and can not, do on their off hours, these should be followed.

 

If any staffer comes back to camp snockered he/she should be dealt with by the Camp Director.

 

BTW - you first state that only those who go into town on their nights off know what is happening, yet obviously you know. You then state that the younger staffers know because they "are not stupid". It sounds like this is really common knowledge, and I would also say that I doubt the Camp Director is "stupider" than the young staffers, and so knows exactly what is going on.

 

If you are truly concerned that camp/BSA rules are being broken talk to the Camp Director, or his boss at your council offices.

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No one is to come to, and certainly not drive to/from, any scouting activity after consuming an alcoholic beverage.

 

How would yeh even know?

 

I know plenty of workin' folks who might have a beer or two at lunch or after work on a Friday, eh? I can see where they might then go home to pick up their kid to drive for the weekend scout campout. It's legal, it's not against da rules, and I don't think we're ready to do blood-alcohol checks on every parent driving on an outing.

 

Is it what I prefer, or do I do it? Nah. But I'm not sure it's worthwhile to get into what some parent drank for lunch unless there's an obvious issue.

 

If the camp has rules requiring the staff to be onsite at all times, or has rules specifying what staffers can, and can not, do on their off hours, these should be followed.

 

Yah, hmmmm....

 

How many of us think it's OK for our employer to tell us what to do on our off-hours? Why would that be OK to do to adult camp staff? Heck, in some jurisdictions that sort of "lifestyle" discrimination by employers is illegal.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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The issue that comes up is that they still live at the camp for the summer, and they're the example that the young men who aren't of age yet are looking up to.

 

While it may not be legal to tell them they cannot go to the bars, the Camp Director should probably take them aside to ask them exactly what example they're trying to set.

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Strictly from a safety standpoint, I'd say Absolutely No Alcohol at ANY scouting event!!! All scout events, including campouts, should be "dry" events. I don't know what the BSA guidelines are here (others have good suggestions who to ask) but IMO this is a safety issue.

 

Case in point, our spring 2009 district campout. Excessive rain caused flooding in the middle of the night. A ranger came to our campsite and told us we had to evacuate immediately. I can't imagine what we would have done if any of the parents had consumed too much alcohol.

 

Use this as an example to the parents in question. There are many other what if situations you could toss in as well. What if someone gets hurt? What if there is a family emergency? etc. Explain to them you need them to be safe for the boys's sakes, including their own. Give them a last chance to put the boys needs and safety first. If they continue, then I'd show them the door.

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PS Welcome to the forums.

 

Also, in your discussion with the parents in question, it might be helpful to clarify with them that finding alcohol AFTER they arrive is not really any different than bringing alcohol with them in the first place. They are probably splitting hairs in their mind in thinking that this is ok since they didn't bring the alcohol with them to the campout.

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BS-87 - It does not matter that they are living at camp. They are not bunking in with the youth campers. Adult staffers have their own quarters.

 

As unlikely it is that they exist, if the camp has restrictions on what their employees can do on their time off, that is the only time there could be a problem.

 

As long as the adult staffers are not doing anything illegal on their evenings/days off, the time is their own.

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Echoing what others have written, it appears that these two men did not violate BSA policy. Absent a unit policy it is difficult to show people the door for violating a policy that did not exist at the time. Right now it appears "no harm - no foul."

 

Nevertheless I prefer that all adults refrain from drinking anything before or during a scouting event, which includes the drive home. I want to be sure that adults are fully capable of responding to any emergency. However, this needs to be laid down before the next outing. A friendly conversation with the COR and people involved is in order, but I would not expel these guys for this at this time.

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