Friends of Scouting and out of touch District...

[BS-87 30]

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Ask for a copy. There are no secrets in scouting. Your council should have nothing to be ashamed of, and would gladly give you a copy. If they refuse... please please please contact their Area Director.

[JMHawkins 15]

I understand some families can give more than other (heck, since I'm self-employed, my family can give more some years than others). But my critique is that a FoS presentation aimed at securing donations from the families who can afford more is misdirected and counterproductive. Especially when units have "goals" to meet. Please stick with me a bit so I can explain.

 

In an earlier post, I already mentioned my concern about multiple asks from the families, of which FoS is yet one more. It comes across as constant begging or nickle-and-diming families, neither of which is a great selling point for the program. A far better approach I believe would be to include a "scoutership" option in the registration fees or camp fees, with a note indicating that the base fee doesn't cover all the costs but is kept low to encourage participation and the Council relies on donations to make up the difference and would you like to make a donation right now?

 

Then, in terms of reaching new "big" donors via the families, the FoS presentation should NOT include any asks for money, but rather should lay out for the families the Council's financials, including the costs and the sources of money. The "sources" part is an indirect pitch, since it will of course include a section on donations from families and individuals and should include a "if you'd like to join these generous families, here's how you can do it." Also, for units that have had generous families in the past, you can highlight that as a bit of subtle pressure to come through again this year. But the key is, it's not an ask. It's an explaination of the finances that leaves the families with the knowledge of how important donations are.

 

Another thing the FoS presentation could do, in Councils like Chief Seattle, is highlight employer-matching programs. SeattlePioneer mentioned Boeing. Microsoft also has a quite generous program that includes matching hours (I think it's $17/hr for time volunteered by MSFT employees. If we hit our Fos goal this year, it'll probably be through matching dollars). Unit leaders can follow up on that sort of thing to encourage some extra volunteers as well ("if you work at Microsoft, you can volunteer at Day Camp and not only benefit the kids with your time, but the unit and district with Microsoft's dollars..."). Two birds with one stone.

 

But that's a very different presentation, and even mindset, from what I've seen so far. Eagle92 talked about ASKING about finances to clear up misconceptions. I think BSA needs to be more proactive than that and be aggressively transparent about finances. TELL families about the finances before they ask. Frankly I think some who take the "salesmanship" approach to raising FoS dollars contribute to the problem by using the visible high points of the program inappropriately in their pitches, to where we end up with families feeling like we're triple charging them for things (example: "Day Camp is coming up, fees are $125 to cover the amazing set of activies our Staff have lined up." Next month: "We need volunteers to help staff Day Camp so we can deliver the amazing activities." Next month: "Friends of Scouting donations are necessary to pay for the wonderful camps and other activities we put on for scouts throughout the year."). For people taking this approach to raising money, the financial obscurity appears to be a benefit, since it lets them tailor their pitch to the audience. But ultimately I believe this reduces net contributions by sowing distrust and skepticism.

 

Another change would be to do away with unit goals. Either we expect the families to pay the frieght or we don't. Whatever goals we have for a unit ought to be rolled into the fees we expect the unit to pay. Additional fundraising should be additional fundraising, and not tied to the families of a specific unit. It reduces the nickle-and-dime feeling and enhances trust and transparency.

 

Turn "Friends of Scouting" into "Finances of Scouting" and I think we'd have better participation and better results.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Desertrat,

 

 

Thanks for giving a brief presentation on your alternative way of raising FOS dollars.

 

 

In our district, Boeing's contributions on behalf of employees is significant, and in other districts similar programs by Microsoft or other big businesses can be important to district FOS campaigns.

 

But your districts idea of dispensing with unit solicitations in favor of shaking other money trees is both interesting and courageous.

 

I've sent your remarks on to our District Executive as something he may want to consider.

 

 

Our district hasn't had a FOS chair the past couple of years and the DE of course has had to fill in by doing that task. It might be interesting to see if we could find a volunteer to lead just an effort to solicit businesses and other community organizations and use that to see what we can do and how we can improve and expand our methods of FOS fund raising.

 

Thank you for passing on a terrific and inspirational idea for improving FOS campaigns!

[Basementdweller 608]

So let me ask.......To my point, beyond our camps, scouting does not exist outside my unit. What does the DE and SE do for me? Nothing, Roundtable is put on by volunteers, I do my own boy talks, we have no district cub events, We are required to put our own advancement into scoutnet now, so there is no administrative support. What exactly does Council, district and national do for me????? Far as I can see, camps are it and ours are in terrible shape.

 

 

Ya got the audacity to ask for more money after I have spent thousands dollars out of my own pocket over the years to put on a decent program????????

 

This year I turned in an itemized receipt with my friends of scouting pledge card. Ya want to know why I am not giving here it is. Just shy of $1k. Everything from the tshirts I got stuck with thru the camp fees I paid. the DE called and asked me what it meant, I told him his FOS donation was already spent. Our Pack sold 10k worth of popcorn and that should pay our debt to council.

 

When our council is talking about moving our service center from a build it owns to a Fancy high rent district of town I have a problem with it. We also have leaking pools, camps with no running water, and old lake beds with no dams...... I will not give another penny till all this is addressed.

 

 

I really hate the way our Council does FOS. Rant off

[moosetracker 132]

I was struck by this comment..

 

 

And then like someone said, leaders have to pay for membership, training and even to volunteer at events, leaders have to pay. Where does it stop.

 

 

It is either ask the volunteers to pay their way, or hike up the participants fee to cover themselves and their trainers fee.

 

If we hike up the fee so the participants carry them, there will be grumbling about that..

 

Just got asked to be on WoodBadge staff, I was all excited.. Then was surprised by the $83 dollar charge to attend and work my ass off as a scribe.. I have no trouble paying it, just thought the higher cost of the WB did account for the staffs food.. If I didn't pay for my meals here, I would pay for them at home.. This also covers meals for a Staff weekend, and my being at the course for 2 more days longer then the participants for setup and staff training.. $83 for 10 days of meals seems like a bargin really.. Oh yeah.. And I get a T-shirt too! and one extra bead! All for $83 bucks..

 

Yeah we worker bees need to eat too..

[Eagle92 110]

Actually I remember in my old council when staff would not pay, but their share of food, etc was incorporated into the event's budget. And I beleive that was the norm elsewhere, but don't quote me on that.

 

Then all of a sudden staff started to pay a fee as well. When I asked about it, I was told that it was a United Way requirement since other UW agencies have their volunteers pay out of pocket as well. So that explains why we have to pay for staffing events now.

[BS-87 30]

Basementdweller -

 

Your district wants to have a better relationship with your unit.

 

Your council wants to have a better relationship with your unit.

 

You're an experienced scouter, and we're all in this for the same thing! It's not like your DE and SE think this is a get rich quick scheme.

 

We are ONE BSA. You are your district, your council, and national because you are a member. You have the opportunity to be an agent of change if things aren't going as you see fit. Please embrace the organization instead of playing victim.

[Basementdweller 608]

I am not a victim.

 

I just have no idea what the DE or SE does for me.

 

I turn my charter into a volunteer at roundtable,

I do my own advancement on scoutnet.

I do my own recruiting including flyers and yard signs,

I have never seen the SE, ever.

I run into our DE once in a while at council events and occasionally at roundtable.

 

 

Since they don't do anything for me I just don't see why I need to pay for them. I get a call from my DE once a year at FOS time. Next year they might not be allowed to present it to the Pack. The committee has discussed it a couple of times, this might be the year it goes thru.....

 

I was the Packs FOS rep a couple of years, I will never call my familys and ask for money like that again, I felt terrible doing it, I feel it hurt my relationship with the Pack, Shaking down my scout Families for money.

[KC9DDI 11]

Basementdweller -

 

I turn my charter into a volunteer at roundtable,

Who then turns it into a professional for processing

 

I do my own advancement on scoutnet

Which gets stored in a computer system maintained at the council level and higher

 

I do my own recruiting including flyers and yard signs

Fair enough, but I presume your council makes similar resources available for you if you want them? Economy of scale suggests that its cheaper for everyone for the council to produce certain materials en masse, rather than each unit develop its own. Especially when theres incentives for both the council and individual units to conduct recruitment.

 

I have never seen the SE, ever.

I run into our DE once in a while at council events and occasionally at roundtable.

Where would you like to see them, and what would you like them to do for you?

 

I think that when we as unit level Scouter immerse ourselves in the nuts and bolts of the Scouting program - outdoors, advancement, leadership development, etc - we somehow expect that the professionals exist to fill these same roles. This is not the case, and in fact, the duties of many Scouting professionals are fairly generic, and not really related to the Scouting program - accounting, bookkeeping, PR, supply chain, IT, legal, miscellaneous paperwork, and yes, fundraising. Expecting a professional to get heavily involved in program production (even at a council level), or to offer your unit personal guideance on whether a Scout met the "Scout Spirit" requirement for rank advancement, or to head out to every district and council camping function and spend the night in a tent, would be like expecting a member of the IT staff at the local elementary school district to head into a 4th grade classroom and teach a math lession. Sure, both the IT guy and the 4th grade teacher work for the school district, but their roles are vastly different. And just because the IT guy doesn't directly engage in teaching children, doesn't mean he shouldn't be paid a salary to do his job. Likewise with the professionals - just because they're job isn't a mirror image of what volunteers do doesn't mean that they don't need financial support.

 

As far as council events being self-sufficient, I think that's true to some extent. The NYLT course in my council, for example, charges a registration fee which is intended to roughly equal the expenses needed to support that Scout for the week. But, when our program program needs to buy or replace very expensive items - large rain flys, staff tents, cooking equipment, etc - the council covers that. Also consider all the behind-the-scenes stuff that volunteers typically don't have to handle or organize - building and health inspections at council properties, salaries for property rangers, equipment for the rangers (tractors, vehicles, fuel, tools), building maintenance, preparing insurance plans, dealing with the media, dealing with lawsuits and legal matters, etc.

 

Sure, some councils may not manage money very honestly or effectively. We've all seen our councils neglect areas that we think deserve financial attention, while putting money into areas that seem less essential. And clearly the fundraising tactics employed by certain individuals and councils can come across as offensive. I'm not saying these aren't problems that we shouldn't be angry about, but that's certainly not the whole story. Also, in my experience, its also been fairly easy to find out at least generally where the council is putting money, and even some explanation for why certain financial decisions were made (eg, "We decided to give the council office a face lift because that could be done for a few thousand dollars, while fixing the 40 year old pool at camp would have cost tens of thousands of dollars to repair and bring up to today's building and safety codes.")

 

Just pointing out that Scouting is not an "a la carte" organization, and that part of being a unit affiliated with a council and the BSA as a national organization involves being able to support that council and national organization financially.(This message has been edited by KC9DDI)

[Doc Meyer 10]

If an executive is doing his job recruiting volunteers, you SHOULD never see him.

[BS-87 30]

KC9DDI and Doc Meyer -

 

Well said

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I'd like to thank Basement Dweller for all the things he does for Scouting, and the money of his own that he spends as well.

 

Of course I can't answer for how wisely or foolishly his council is spending their funds. I hope they are doing their best and making wise decisions, but perhaps not.

 

I certainly wouldn't ask him to pay a penny more than he is happy to do, and if that's $0.00, I'd say he has already done nobly.

 

Finally, I'm sure I'm lucky to have a highly effective district and council. If I had a district and council that wasted money and cared little about the Scouts and volunteers, I might well be among those who were very unhappy with FOS solicitations.

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[desertrat77 1144]

I can identify with Basement's sentiments--as an ASM, then SM (in the '80s) I was in a council like his.

 

The council folks (and district) from that time could be summed up thusly: smug, condescending, out of touch, strong sense of entitlement--all conveyed to us unit level folks in a very clear manner.

 

So when it was money raising time--the early years of popcorn, and whatever we were calling the predecessor to FOS--it was easy to say "no thanks."

 

This happens when council and district think that the units work for them. Sorry, doesn't work that way. We all might be on equal ground in the great family of scouting, but when it comes to who is supported, and who supports?

 

National, council and district work for the unit--the troop, pack, crew, ship are paramount. The folks that wear gold shoulder loops that understand that do well.

[Basementdweller 608]

Doc, you want to know who recruited me, my son. no DE or SE or UC or anyone else. So your arrogant attitude about Executives recruiting volunteers is complete rubbish. My son was recruited by a flyer paid for out of the CM's pocket. He recruited me to be the tiger den leader the rest is history.

 

I got a really stupid question to ask then.

 

 

If I already put my rank advancement in scoutnet and do my charter on line with national. Why does another living soul need to do anything with it???? I have already done the work. So in my book it is already processed all he needs to do is collect the money.

 

We have been required to do both on line now since September 2010. Our council office will not accept paper rank advancement any more.

 

 

If BSA's IT department is that screwed up and it has to be re-entered we need to talk. That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen or heard.

 

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker 132]

Basement - You would think.. huh?.. Simple there are about 3 computer systems in Scouting. None talk to the other, or if they do, they do so poorly. That is why alot of the YPT training dates had to be hand entered even if you did it on-line, and the MyScouting had your training recorded.. Maybe some day BSA will develop a working all encompassing computer system.. We can only dream.. Although I personally like our registrar, so I hope they don't make his job obsolete, just something he can manage.

 

PS. our council is pushing the on-line, about half do My-Scouting, 40% do TroopMaster printout (not sure if that becomes on-line somehow).. and 10% still do their own paper thing.. The Eagle board does paper, but, I don't see them changing. These scouts are not all from their unit.. (Husband get the paperforms, and I get the privilige of hand entering all of them again for our District, because our system can not give the info to me in Excel, and cannot do percentage analysis on unit advancement.. It is something they wish to track, as one of many indicators of a unit in trouble.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)