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Local and National Tour Permits Obsolete

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Sorry Beavah, you lose geek cred for referencing the prequel travesty...I mean trilogy. You know, where we learn that Darth Vader is just a whiny brat who lashes out at the galaxy because his mother was killed.


If you wanted a good analogy, Vader would have had to come up with additional useless paperwork and mandatory training in the hopes that no more mothers would be killed. Instead he had his step brother killed, blew up an entire planet including the adoption parents of his daughter, cut his son's hands off and turned his best friend into a ghost (and that was just his immediate family).


Damn you George Lucas for destroying the characterization of a perfectly good bad guy.


OK, rant over. Glad I got that off my chest. We can now return to our regularly scheduled squabbling.

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"So, a Pack or a Troop requires Two Deep Leadership;

and a Patrol should be Zero Deep Leadership."


No, a patrol has youth leadership in the form of a Patrol Leader and his assistant.


Our patrols are encouraged and do patrol outings. A typical outing would be to hike about 2 miles from our meeting place to a secluded 100 acre wood site which we have permission to use for an over night camp out. No adult leaders. Permission slips and a SM approved plan required.

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If you leave you refuse to buy the Star Wars Special editions because HAN SHOT FIRST, you might be a Star Wars geek.


If your family and friends refuse to play the original Star Wars Trivial Pursuit because even with a missing 5 turns handicap you still win, you might be a Star Wars geek.


If you buy the cool Naboo rocket kit only for the R2D2 electronic launcher, you might be a Star Wars geek. ( Ok I also bought it b/c the kids wanted the Naboo fighter).


If you begged your boss to keep the R2D2 drink cooler at your summer camp trading post, you might be a Star Wars geek.


If you summer camp name is "Master Yoda," you might be a Star Wars geek.


If you turned your "Cubs in Space" themed day camp into a STAR WARS day camp, you might be a Star Wars geek. ( ok 1 person didn't get the message and was a "red shirt,")


If you know the words to Weird Al's " YODA," "Y.O.D.A," and "Star Wars cantina, and got your entire CSDC singing it, you might be a Star Wars geek.


If you leave a rehearsal party as soon as you are done rehearsing in order to get in line to see Star Wars Episode 1: Phantom Menance on opening nite, you might be a Star Wars geek. (ok I admit that was a bit of a mistake, but it was opening nite and I didn'tknow how bad it was going to be).


If you have an entire collection of Star Wars books, comic books, etc, you might be a Star Wars geek.


If you use Star Wars quotes in your everyday speech, you might be a Star Wars geek.


Ok I wrote enough. I think I am spinning off now

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Wow a bunch of really good posts. Richard even shows that he might have a sense of humor.

Two things:

A Patrol outing in my opinion is one in which the Patrol plans it and is up to and including being dropped off by parents for an overnight camping excursion. Under some conditions swimming might even be reasonable and prudent. All subject to Scoutmaster approval.


I think it is fair to remember why we are here....... The Scout

His patrol supports him

The Troop supports the patrol

The district supports the Troop (or any unit)

The council supports the districts

The region supports the councils

National supports the regions.

The key is support. If our expectation is anything short of boys growing to the point where we can trust them to not only take care of themselves but also each other without our interference then we need to change our name.


I do not see our mission as one of providing supervision of boys until they drive away on their first date. Rules solely based on liability reduction, paperwork to make us feel or look better, and or required training for the sake of saying we have trained volunteers seem to be aimed towards adult control rather than empowering youth to learn and grow.


By the way the five mile hikes IIRC was part of the Hiking Skill Award, too lazy to look.


Richard thanks for taking the time to listen to us.


I wish to share the message of living the ideals with more youth; seems like roadblocks keep piling up. It needs to be about the Boy not the paperwork.

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Clemlaw, my recollection of my youth Scouting experience is extremely similar to yours. I must have made First Class before the cutoff date; if I recall correctly I had only a couple of First Class requirements to finish when the new requirements came out, and was able to finish under the old requirements. I assume I had to earn the increased number of MB's that were required for Star and Life, and did not make Eagle.


I am sure that nobody made Eagle in troop without doing a lot of camping; whether they all earned Camping MB before that it was put back on the Eagle required list (1979 I think) I do not know, since I was out of Scouting by the mid-70's.


I do know that in the troop I currently serve, a majority of boys (including my son) have made Eagle without earning Lifesaving, as they earn Emergency Prep. I have spoken with leaders in other troops, and some troops seem to have "traditions" that encourage more boys to earn Lifesaving. I am not aware of any boys (in the present day) who have made Eagle without earning Swimming MB. This may have something to do with the fact that the other MB's in that "group", Cycling and Hiking, have requirements that are pretty difficult. (I do know of several who have earned Cycling, and a couple who have earned Hiking, in addition to Swimming.) I would not see a big problem with someone earning Eagle without Swimming MB -- they still have to pass the Second and First Class swimming requirements.


One can debate what was done in the 70's. My difficulty is with the belief that the entire program just collapsed into nothing, because I don't think it did. If, as Eagle92 says, some troops stopped going camping and some do little camping today, well, that just wasn't (and isn't) my experience. In the troops that I knew about (and know about), outdoor activities remained the focus of the program, and remain the focus today.

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Sadly, I see that leadership requirement for patrol outings still on the horizon. It is the unnatural evolution of our society. Where once children ran around all day without supervision, playing with bb guns and lawn darts; we now have children that parents feel must be under constant protection and school systems outlawing the game of tag as too dangerous. It is a sad comment on our society that we are raising a generation of boys who develop into one of two things. Either wimps, unable to understand what a male is, or a young man who does not know or understand how to control himself.

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