Dealing with an inactive committee chair

[83Eagle 11]

Our pack had been a one-man show for many years, with enough warm bodies on the committee just to allow it to recharter. Eventually the CM burned himself out and asked me to take over this year.

 

What we were able to do is replace two of the warm bodies on the committee with two capable people. The more difficult issue is the CC. Our CC is also our COR. This person has been in this role for many decades and is generally seen by the local community as being part of the pack identity.

 

However, our CC is essentially a figurehead. The CC has never held a committee meeting or been part of the pack planning/leadership/administration for all the years Ive been in the Pack, or even before according to the previous CM. Again, the CM in this Pack simply ran the program and made all the decisions by himself (and never held leader meetings either). The CC would show up from time to time for special events but otherwise was never at pack meetings.

 

When I took over as CM my first order of business was to delegate and collaborate. We immediately began holding leader meetings and I invited the whole committee and CC. The CC made a meeting or two but has since stopped coming.

 

Likewise, I invited the CC to our pack meetings. The CC made the first meeting after my invite but that was it.

 

Ive tried to get the CC to handle specific things that should fall under the committee responsibilities. For instance, the council is looking for a friends of scouting coordinator, which clearly falls under the pack committee. The CC told me I cant help you with that. So either I drum up a volunteer, do it myself, or go back to the council and say Brought it to our committee chair who doesnt want our Pack to do it. Not great options!

 

Our CC is well respected in the community and has given a lot to Scouting over the years in different roles (including being a DL way back when), but either doesnt understand, doesnt know, or doesnt care about what the current role is supposed to be. The attitude seems to be, Ive been around a long time, I like wearing the uniform, signing off on applications and important papers that have a title for me, and coming to a few important things to show my face, but running the entire pack is your job. Just like it was for the CM before you.

 

I really dont know what to do here. On one hand I am frustrated because Im not getting the support I should and am doing too many extra tasksworried Im going to burn out.

 

On the other hand, the general membership and community do not see this problem. They only see that the CM has always done everything, so why dont I? I have already run into this in getting volunteers to fill roles the CM had always done but could or should be delegated. Fortunately I have had good luck explaining how this is our program and how to make it better, and using better direct recruiting efforts with parents, and we are having more luck getting parents to step up.

 

But that doesnt solve our problem at the top. I feel like whatever we are doing is despite our top committee leadership and not because of it. Asking for help directly from the CC, is not working. Mentioning to the CC specific tasks that should be done by the CC or committee, is not working. The committee members we have are good, but they are new to the role and learning as they go, with me essentially acting as the de facto CC to them.

 

Perhaps most important, this needs to be handled delicately. This is a one-Pack community with a strong reputation in the community. As far as the program itself goes, we do a lot of activities and have good member retention and high Boy Scout crossover, thanks to the CM working his fingers to the bone. So I am not looking to stage some sort of coup. My goal is to make sure that I and future CMs dont burn out like the guy before me, and to try to evolve to a better-structured organization that is easier to hand off to the next generation of leadership when I leave.

 

It would be fantastic to find a role for the CC where the CC felt as important as now, but could be removed from the pack administration. But since the CC needs to be one of the ones signing off on any committee change

 

Aaargh!

 

[Stosh 3452]

While it was not Scouting, I did face a similar situation many moons ago. I was "it" the person tagged to do all the work. Yeah, right. That's going to happen.

 

So, what I did was take all the activities and events from the previous year and title a single 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper with the name of each of the activity/event. Then I had sign up lines below. Chairperson was at the top of every listing, and then another column for the dollars necessary to make it happen. I had extra sheets for any other new ideas for events/activities that someone might want to post too.

 

I posted them all all and for one month advertised participation in signing up for anyone and everyone who wanted to see things happen in the group. Well, at the end of a month, some of the sheets didn't have so much as a pencil scratch on them. Those were thrown away. Those that didn't have enough money were thrown away, those that didn't have the number of lines filled out by helping hands were thrown away. I even threw one away that had everything filled out except the chairperson line.

 

I collated the one or two events/activities that were completely filled out and put together a calendar for the year. A friend of mine did the same thing in a Cub Scout pack and they didn't have a Blue/Gold that year.

 

I ran a nice program the first year pretty much all by myself. Any and all complaints were ignored because they had their opportunity to get involved and chose not to participate. Coming around to complain later basically fell on deaf ears.

 

Once everyone found out that you were 100% dead serious about this whole process, the second year went rather smoothly. Sign-up sheets were filled out, money committed, and the calendar went together smoothly. Everyone knew what they needed to do for the year and that was the end of it.

 

As long as people know they can take advantage of others, they will do so and CM's and SM will continue to burn out right and left. But those that choose not to become victims need a backbone to support themselves. Lay out your agenda, and follow it regardless of how much crap comes your way. If you do a nice job, they'll ask you to do it again, if not they'll find someone else to abuse. It's a win either way for you.

 

So, quit worrying about someone else not doing their job, just do your own the best you can. You can't change others as readily and quickly as you can change yourself. People who can't be trusted to do what they say they are going to do are a total waste of my time. I don't need their support because they aren't offering any, quit expecting it.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[Eagledad 2778]

We have a troop in our district with the exact same problem.

 

If I were you, I would find a new CC adult and make him the ACM of Adult Program. Then have him run his/her responsibilities like a normal unit committee. They should even invite the CC to the Adult Program meetings to be polite. I think you will find even the district and council will respect your Adult Program committe as the Pack Committee because it serves the purpose of a unit committee without anyone getting hurt.

 

These things can be sticky. In our case, nobody wants to ask the CC to step aside because he is the oldest scouter in the state in one of the oldest troops in the state. There is some honor and respect there even if he is running the troop in the ground.

 

Barry

 

[Eamonn 61]

83Eagle

This kinda situation happens a lot.

Some Packs are happy with it.

As I read what you posted a couple of things hit me.

1/ Where is the CO?

Maybe you might want to give the Executive Officer a call and meet with him and explain the situation? If possible having an experienced member of the Commissioner Staff might also be a good idea.

My thinking is that all too often the Charter Partner has no idea what s going on and even less of an idea of what should be going on. This can be especially true if things have gone on the way that they have for some time.

With any luck the CO might be able to find a nice way of allowing the Committee Chair to remain as COR but have him step down from the Chairman position.

2/ The other thing that hit me was that maybe? Just maybe you are rushing things a little?

If this is the way things have been done for a while trying to bring about change overnight is one sure way of upsetting someone and cause disharmony among the adults who serve the Pack.

Maybe if you slow things down a little and find ways to work with this Chair. He will either come around or step down?

 

Please don't feel that you have to jump through hoops just because the Council wants something! Remember they are there to serve you, not make your life more difficult.

Ea.

[Rockford8070 10]

At recharter can you charter the same person as COR and CC? You shouldn't be able to.

[moosetracker 132]

Yes there are some positions that allow people to be multi-registered. COR could also be the CC or a CM, depending on if the unit does not have a CC or has a CC but not enough CM's to have the 3 minimum.

 

I believe there are other positions which can be multi-registered, but with a specific list of what else they can be registered as.

[BadenP 93]

83Eagle

 

First of all the guy is the CC/COR, which is allowed by the way by the BSA, in essence 83 you work for him not the other way around. As COR he represents the CO and signs off on all unit volunteers, including CM. The ONLY recourse you have in this situation is to go to the IH (Institutional Head) of the CO and explain the situation if he agrees with you ONLY he has the authority under charter to remove this individual. However be careful where you tread because he may tell the IH you are the problem and you could find yourself out of a job. Try talking to the CC first, tell him your frustrations, if that doesn't work then go to the IH and talk to him, if that still does not work you probably ought to start up another pack if you have enough other parents to go with you.

 

Last point don't try to appeal to your council SE or DE because unless it is a child abuse issue they will not get involved. Good Luck.

[Twocubdad 665]

I agree with Barry. Essentially you just redraw the organizational chart with the Committee Chairman as a figure head and everything else led by you, the Cub Master. Create Asst. Cub Master positions to run everything -- ACM finance, ACM membership, ACM administration.

 

There are a lot of units which run this way, but keep the traditional org chart and titles. They're the units with the strong CM or Scout Master who is obviously in charge and directs the other adults top down. Our troop ran this way for awhile when we were transitioning to a new CC and trying to build the committee.

 

But I will caution you that you need a designated Number 2 guy. Maybe he/she is ACM program or First Assistant CM. First, you need a clear line of succession. Second, you need a go-to guy to handle problems you can't. There will always be a parent or a kid that just gets under your skin and you need some else to step in. Most importantly, you need a partner -- a second set of eyes on the pack. While you're running the pack meeting, your #2 needs to be working the parents in the back of the room. You need someone who sees the things you don't and catches things you miss. You know, all the stuff a good CC should be doing.

 

THEN, when the time is right, you mention to your current CC that if he has ever thought about stepping down as CC and only being COR, then Bob over there would make a great CC. You may be surprised at the answer.

 

 

[BadenP 93]

Addendum: the CC/COR is the only dual registered position allowed by the BSA

 

Barry and Twocub, the CM DOES NOT have the authority to change or appoint anyone to a new position without the backing of the CO's COR or IH under BSA charter regulations.

[83Eagle 11]

Our chartered org is hands off but regardless, as I said, I'm not looking to stage a coup by lodging a complaint about the CC, not to the CO and certainly not to the council.

 

I also know it's a "careful what you wish for" scenario because having 100% de facto authority (even when I technically don't) makes some things easier. But it makes it that much harder to pass the reins to a new CM in a year or two because they look at the role and say "I could never do all that." Hence the need for a more active and empowered committee, which should really start with the CC. But, some of the other options presented might bear fruit.

 

Another possibility is sitting down with the CC not to say "you should be doing this" but "do you want to do this?" Knowing that the answer will be "no," I can therefore find people to fill pieces of the CC role, while letting the CC think that the decision was hers.

[BadenP 93]

83

 

Hands off or not only your CO can officially appoint a new CC so you better get their prior approval before you just put someone new in that role to keep it all legit. A pack like yours where one person wields all the power is not only operating outside the guidelines of the BSA but is truly a receipe for disaster that may prevent the pack from growing and flourishing as it should. Still, I understand your frustration but this is the time to let other people in to help you not to try to manipulate them to do only what you want but what is best for the kids longterm.

[Twocubdad 665]

Yeah, B-P, that's the correct, by-the-book answer, but the world is full of hand-off Chartered Organizations, name-only Chartered Organization Reps and uninvolved Committee Chairmen. This is just how units often have to operate.

 

I have never had my COR or IH question -- or hardly look at -- any adult application I've ever submitted to either of them. Even the few times we've registered new chairmen or unit leaders, I always go in armed with a presentation on why the person is right for the job. Invariably, my COR will hold up his hand and say, "you're running the show. If you're okay with him, he's okay with me," or something similar.

 

Yes, 83, it's a two-edged sword. Your situation can be a lot of extra work, but also an opportunity. Look at the number of posters here complaining about their COR picking through their lunch box.

[83Eagle 11]

Still, I understand your frustration but this is the time to let other people in to help you not to try to manipulate them to do only what you want but what is best for the kids longterm.

 

Wow, BadenP, why so accusatory? Unless I am reading this wrong.

 

As I said all along, I am trying to

 

1) Make our program better, and

2) Make it easier for the next generation of CM to take over.

 

Nothing to do with manipulating people into what I want to do. If that were my objective I would make no changes because the top-down structure I inherited would be perfect to achieve that objective. .

[Eagledad 2778]

BP, I'm not sure of your point, 83 doesn't have your ideal scenario. The ACM was my way of taking the extra work off the CM. If the ACM can develop and run a functional quasi Pack committee, then the pack is running normal like most packs. Then when the CC does decide to step down, the committee is already in place and the leaders only need to change their titles. I imagine the present CC will be glad to help this along.

 

Barry

[83Eagle 11]

To distill a few points, it seems to me what I'm hearing is

 

-Don't worry about the CC--just count your blessings that the CC is hands off rather than a micromanager.

 

-Continue to recruit parents as either parent volunteers or official pack committee members and keep the CC involved in the selection process for bona fide committee members.

 

-Demonstrate the need for additional committee members due to increased # of activities undertaken by the pack this year (which is certainly true), as well as perpetuation planning.

 

Or something like that...