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Boy Scout Blue and Gold dilema

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That the troop would consider ruining the B&G dinner and ceremony suggests some Napoleonic Complex among the Troop leaders as well, perhaps.




And apparently this Napoleonic Complex by the Cubmaster wasn't detected until the Troop's oxe was about to be gored. At least no effort is reported to help these put upon parents deal with this abusive Cubmaster until that moment arrived.


You've gotten good advice on what your options are. You are entitled to pursue those options just as the Cubmaster is entitled to pursue his.



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Let cool heads prevail! Our intent was never to ruin the B&G. We're thinking of the boys crossing over to our troop. The idea to "deputize" the parents seems most practical since the parents of these prospective new Scouts are completely behind them and us. Again, sparing details, if this matter of a new Troop had been handled in a friendly way, not secretively and vindictively, our Troop would have the opportunity to welcome the new Troop and cooperation would flourish. Be it that our efforts to reach out are squashed and not passed along to the Cub Community, our image is being unfairly manipulated. Parents of Scouts whose sons left told us their sons left to follow their friends and those parents don't agree with the indignant tactics used by the CM/SM. Maybe my few 10 years of Scout leadership won't allow me to believe that people will be so unfair to the Scouting Community.

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Moose had the same thought as I did.


Register one of the incoming parents, as a Committee Member if nothing else. It might also be a nice gesture to supply the newly registered parent with a uniform shirt decked out with your Troop number.


Then, the uniformed parent can officially welcome the new Boy Scouts to their Troop.


Hopefully the CM will not kick out one of his Webelos' parents.


Good Luck!


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It ain't your party. If you aren't invited, that's the end of it.


This whole situation is toxic. Stay as far away as you can. If the Webelos parents want to take on the pack, it's their fight to persue.


Focus on your job. Register the boys and plan a really nice Scout-led welcoming ceremony for them, preferably on a campout far away from all the drama.

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I do not even know if I would put them in your uniform, as it may be percieved as an "In your face" type of move by this cub master.


Low key all the way, as far as he knows the parents are just taking on the role of welcoming committee. But the Boys and the parents (who count) will know they are the official representatives of the troop.


That should be enough to make sure the evening does not blow up into a feud..

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The other approach that hasn't been mentioned----



Where are the Pack Committee Chair, Chartered Organization Rep and Institutional Head on the activities of the Cubmaster? Is the Chartered Organization also the CO for the new Troop?


What kind of organization is the Chartered Organization?



If the Webelos parents have complaints, it would be reasonable to direct them to those leaders to help resolve their concerns.



All this suggests that wise Scout Troop Leaders maintain close and cordial ties with feeder Packs and do whatever sucking up might be needed to avoid this kind of problem!


An Assistant Scoutmaster that came from the pack recently and is detailed to help maintain that close and cordial relationship might well be wise.....






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Well, my idea hasn't come up yet.


As a webelos den leader I would plan a very nice den potluck in my home (or another) to celebrate the end of our cub scouting days together. I would keep it nice and informal.


I would invite the SM and troop boys and we would do our own simple bridging ceremony. And perhaps the SM could visit with the parents and boys and become acquainted. Perhaps the troop boys could talk about summer camp and all the adventures of boy scouting.


To honor the boys (and keep their scouting hearts intact) I would do this one or 2 weeks in advance of the B&G. I'd ask the troop not to process the applications until after the pack's B&G (just in case there would be any weirdness about awarding AOL or other awards).


Then, families could attend B&G in the comfort of their choices.


If CM changes mind, boys could all bridge to their choosen troop again.



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Not exactly on the original topic, but something that needs to be thought about:


Two troops can not survive, let alone thrive, on the cross overs from one Pack.


You are going to need to make a larger recruiting pool/stream somehow. That may mean getting very active with school, church, and community based recruiting of those not involved in Scouting. Yes, it is possible to recruit directly into Boy Scouts. It may also mean that your town needs a second pack.


This really can't be a back burner matter for long, though. You need to start working on a realistic recruiting plan that will keep your troop viable.

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In a "small town", is the CM/SM's actions/reputation going to stay "secret" for long? Make sure your Troop's rep is good. Keep up the activities and you'll have very little trouble.

I also wonder at the reason for his "jumping ship".

AND broaden your recruiment efforts , as has been suggested.

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Thanks to all. The forum here at Scouter.com has provided us with a pool of suggestions from experienced people as we had hoped. We have a Committee/Leader tonight and all of your suggestions will be considered.

Here's how we got to this point and this is from my viewpoint as an Assistant Scoutmaster:

A scout father who did not come to many troop meetings and barely participated in troop events and is the Cub Master in our village, suddenly and without knowledge to our troop, pulled his son (and friends of the same school-age follow) out of our troop, and began his own troop. The parents of the following scouts were inactive in our troop and were embedded in the Cub Program. Vague reasons were given for the action and these issues certainly could have been worked out before starting a new troop. One or two issues were brought up beforehand and were looked at by our Committee and pool of Leaders and discussed. The issues were somewhat trivial and now appear to me as though they presented as as a reason to leave because they were either voted against by 100% of the Committee/Leaders or too lofty to enact in a short time frame. The CM/SM approached a local civic organization in hopes of sponsorship for the new troop but was turned away(I believe the civic group found out about how our troop was being unethically maligned and resented the back-door trick put upon them). The CM/SM got a few parents of the new troop together and chartered themselves. The CM/SM soon demands that we not communicate with any one individually in the Cub Program and all correspondence be handled by himself only (all of which go in the round file). This effectively means that our Troop is cut off from the Cub Program = no chance for recruitment there and our Troop is continually bad-mouthed by the CM/SM. A den who wishes to cross over to our troop has kept us informed about the Pack not getting our out-reachings and the misinformation which is given about our troop and leaders.

We had a few meetings with the parents of a few Webelos who want to cross over and they asked that we not make it known until the last minute that certain boys are crossing over. These boys expressed fears should the CM/SM find out. The parents have participated in a few of our events and were so shocked by the untruths told to them about our troop at the pack level, they were ashamed to tell us.

It was mentioned where District and Council were with this. I'm imagining that they're confused as to whether they should deal with this. Maybe a lot of this comes out like he said-she said. The Cub Master/Scout Master had to have some help arranging all of this behind our back and without our representation, who knows what case was pleaded? Two District Commissioners are concerned about the duality of CM/SM in this case.

We'll take the high road as we have been trying to do through all of this and welcome our new Scouts and try to find some way behind the iron curtain.

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Clem makes a good point; while communicating "through" the pack is obviously more convenient, if that isn't working, there's always the good-old-fashioned mail for direct contact with the parents in the pack. (Or the telephone, but I think letters would be better in this case.)


GWL, you say "District Commissioners" are aware of the situation, but if they have not done anything about I would call the District Executive. The approach I would take (assuming that you can truthfully make the following statement is: Our troop is NOT GOING TO SURVIVE if this situation is not corrected. (You don't actually have to shout but those capitalized words are the ones you really want to get across -- again, if they are true.) Presumably your DE was very happy when the new troop was formed. Formation of new units looks good in a DE's job evaluation. For the same reason, presumably your DE would be very UNhappy if your troop were to dry up and disappear because you had no or few incoming Cub Scouts. Putting the issue in that light might prompt some action. But you might want to first try the "direct communication" route first and see what happens.

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He might be the CM, and he might be the SM, but he's not the PM (postmaster). There's absolutely nothing stopping you from sending any type of recruiting information you wish directly to the families you want to recruit.



If this was my council, the problem I would have with that is that the contact information, address, email, phone# of members of a unit are not given to anyone who asks..


While I understand, and in many ways applaud the council for protecting our information, and not selling it to anyone who asks, it can be frustrating to a neighboring unit who wants to extend and invite. Our troop hosted a pancake breakfast and wanted to invite (not everyone, but units in the area).. I got emailed one or two units with people I knew personally, the rest I could not get the info to invite them. Even the council web site to ask about joining the units, masked the contact info and you could email sort of like the setup on these forums.


Same here and more so, because you are looking for not just one unit leader, but for a group of Webloes (individual families) of a unit to mail to..

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If I were the DE I wouldn't be impressed by dire predictions. I would offer the established Troop some suggestions on how they can recruit new Scouts from outside the Cub Scout Pack.


An excellent opportunity is to recruit 5th and 6th graders in the spring so you can sell your summer hiking and camping program.


So you had one family unhappy enough to leave your program to start his own, and he was persuasive enough to take the CM/SM with him? Perhaps you should have taken the complaints more seriously and looked for ways to put the enrgy of those people to work.


I'd be taking a harder look at your program to decide what has motivated people to abandon it. This forum gets complaints about existing programs quite commonly, and often those program don't want to hear about them. Starting a competing unit is a method likely to be chosen only by people with a pretty keen sense of grievance.


You've expressed a significant sense of entitlement to be able to recruit boys from the pack which is missplaced. In my view, troops should usually be making much more vigorous efforts to support Cub Scout packs whose boys they need or desire, but usually not much effort is made aside from scheduling an AOL ceremony to grab up the boys the Pack leadership has struggled to produce.


You reap what you sow.

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So, your village of 3,000, now has 2 Boy Scout Troops, and 1 Cub Scout Pack, all with different Charter Organizations?


The one Troop is self chartered. Who is the Charter Org for the Pack, and for your Troop?


Do all of the Cub Scouts in your village attend the same school? Is there only one K-5(or 8) grade school, private, or public, in your village?


Would your CO be interested in chartering a Cub Scout Pack?


You stated ->>"The Cub Master/Scout Master had to have some help arranging all of this behind our back and without our representation, who knows what case was pleaded? Two District Commissioners are concerned about the duality of CM/SM in this case."

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