A cancer in the troop?

[evry 10]

Your thoughts on the subject please.

 

Background: We have a parent (also an Assistant Scoutmaster) who has made it clear that his son intends to earn all the available merit badges. This is a parent (he is an Eagle) that signed off on all the rank requirements for his son and had another leader who is a Committee Member sign off on the Scoutmaster Conference and Scout spirit for the ranks. He then asked for a BOR for his son, and the BOR was at a predicament and decided that they could not really do anything but accept it as a fait accomplis. Since then, the parent has signed off as Merit Badge Counselor for 5 of the son's merit badges. The Committee made it clear to the parent that this has to stop, so the parent enlisted friends/acquaintances of his to sign up as MB Counselors, and uses them to have the son complete an average of 3-4 merit badges per month.

 

During a recent Committee Meeting, he mentioned that he had enlisted a MB Counselor for Fly Fishing to teach the troop Fly Fishing and would need one of the regular weekly meetings and two Sundays to complete the merit badge. I raised an objection to having a merit badge taught during a regular troop meeting since it would force the Scouts who have no interest in Fly Fishing to sit through the class. The parent was asked whether it could be scheduled at another time. The answer was that his son had Soccer and other activities scheduled. Long debate short...it was agreed that we would allow the Scouts to decide whether they wanted to have this class during their meeting. At the following meeting, the parent took over (I assume in his A. Scoutmaster role) and announced the upcoming activities (MB Clinics that were available through Merit Badge University) as well as the Fly Fishing clinic. He then followed it up with an e-mail to the troop stating that "we're going to have a Fly Fishing MB Clinic on this date." I responded to the e-mail and copied only the Committee Members asking him why he announced this clinic without asking the Scouts beforehand as was agreed upon. His answer was that the Scouts themselves had requested him to schedule a Fly Fishing MB Clinic last year during a campout so he was following the wishes of the Scouts.

 

The Scoutmaster who has been Scoutmaster for the last 30+ years finally got involved and stated that he approves of the merit badge clinic since it will expose the Scouts to something that is usually not available, and since there is no other activity planned for that troop meeting date it would not affect any plans. (We are talking about mid-October). The troop is not affiliated with any church etc. The Chartering Org is a non-profit set up by the older leaders in the troop (old guard) in order to sponsor the troop. (convenient..eh?)

 

When my son first joined and I did not yet understand the program, I had no objection to merit badge clinics etc. However, I now feel that the merit badge program is intended to be an Adult-Scout interaction outside the setting of a classroom type environment where the MB Counselor guides and counsels the Scouts...he doesn't teach! I have no problem with other Scouts attending the clinics, but there is something that bothers me when a clinic is scheduled during a time when Scouts should be working on troop business. The Patrol System is non-existent in our troop. The Scoutmaster does not get involved in directing the Scouts to specific MB Counselors, so the Scouts find the MB Counselors that they want from a list and go to them directly.

 

Maybe I have gotten it all wrong and should agree with "experienced" leaders since this is the way it's always been done in "our troop". Where do I go from here? Should I just let it ride? Is it time to find another troop for my son that follows my view of what scouting is all about? My son wants to remain with his friends, but I know that he will have a better scouting experience elsewhere. Hard Decision!

 

To get an idea of the type of "helicopter" parent we are talking about (always pushing his son)...this is a list of the merit badges currently being worked on....he expects to finish them by end of October...I'm sure a new list with as many will be generated then!

 

Farm Mechanics

Personal Fitness

Citizenship in the Nation

Bugling

Gardening

Orienteering

Communications

Motorboating

Reading

Pets

Foresty

Fishing

Fly Fishing

Personal Management

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

There is nothing that states a parent or any relative for that matter can not be a merit badge counselor for their son or relative. The issue I have is unless the Scoutmaster has deferred SM Conferences to this other person, they should not be considered done.

[shortridge 184]

"... had another leader who is a Committee Member sign off on the Scoutmaster Conference and Scout spirit for the ranks."

 

The Scoutmaster Conference is called that for a reason: The Scoutmaster or his/her designee is supposed to do it, not just any old adult. If the TC member did this without the SM's approval, then it's clearly invalid.

 

From that, and other things you've said, it sounds like the Scoutmaster is OK with how this parent is running things. And with no CO to appeal to except the old-guard adults themselves, that's all that matters.

 

I'd advise searching out another troop with your son. You're not going to change this group.

[Beavah 205]

Hiya evry,

 

I think you're mixing up two things, eh?

 

Da first is the behavior of a rogue parent. Yah, you're right, the parent is doing things that will not really benefit his son, and is indirectly compromising da program for other boys in small ways. I'd be inclined to buy the fellow a full set of merit badges that he can present to his son and then hang on his wall. If yeh don't have a strong CO or committee (or SM), then yeh often find that a strong-willed parent will take advantage of other people's desire to avoid conflict and push this stuff through. Really there's no controlling it unless someone says "Thank you for your service, you are no longer an ASM, all of your son's MB work must be approved in advance by the SM who will specify a counselor".

 

But da question of whether you or your son should look for another troop is completely unrelated, eh? Is your son having fun? Is he learning things about the outdoors and working with others? Those are da questions you need to ask to answer the second question you pose. Whether our kids participate in an activity does not depend on us agreeing with everybody else in that activity, just on whether or not our kids are getting something worthwhile from it. Your boy will have occasional imperfect teachers, teachers who play favorites. Da school will occasionally have weak curriculum or let some kid pass because their parents pushed. That doesn't necessarily mean it's time to withdraw your kid from school.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad 665]

You don't say what your position is in the troop, but that makes a difference.

 

Without the support of the Scoutmaster or committee chair, you have an especially tough row. There are numerous check points this guy has blown through -- properly registering MB counselors, his son getting blue cards and counselors' names before beginning MBs, etc.-- which this guy has blown through. Unfortunately, the SM and CC are the ones responsible for managing these check points.

 

The thing which is most troublesome to me it that the committee asked the guy to run the fly fishing idea past the boys, but the guy basically ignored that and told the boys what was going to happen.

 

Have a private meeting with the Scoutmaster. Explain to him your concerns and let him know that you and your son feel strongly enough about this you are considering moving troops if the merit badge mill continues -- not as a threat, but to let him know the level of your displeasure.

 

THEN ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO TO GET THE TROOP PROGRAM BACK ON TRACK. This probably means you step up and help the boys run some appropriate troop meeting programs. Maybe it means you become the new advancement chairman. Maybe the Scoutmaster designates you as the ASM responsible for signing off rank requirements.

[BadenP 93]

evry

 

The problem you see in the troop has its root cause in the way National allows such advancement to be done on a local level without proper checks and balances in place before ranks and mb's are awarded. If the program was being administered and monitored properly there would be no Eagle mill or merit badge factory troops. Too many scoutmasters feel like they are omnipotent and their way is the only way. If we scouters allow advancements to be just given away and not really earned then those awards become meaningless, especially the Eagle. We wind up with a bunch of unskilled scouts who have shortcut the requirements thinking that is just fine, and grow up become scouters and carry this sad tradition to the next generation of scouts.

 

If your son is having fun and he is earning his way legitimately then this ASM's behavior, as bad as it is, can be ignored. If your son however sees these shortcuts as the norm then as his parent trying to teach him about values and honesty then you owe it to him to find a troop who runs their program the way it is supposed to be.

[Thomas54 10]

 

My Advice

 

Just float up and down with this one. How this parent is contriving his son's scout experience is of no concern to you. If the troop wants to hold a MB class during a couple of meetings, ok, go with it.

 

Fighting from the back of the committee room and attempting to steer this off course ship is next to impossible. The whole thing will eventually blow up in your and your son's face.

 

That said; I suspect that when a parent or committee member says the "scouts want" that it is really "I want this for my scout". The only group that can speak for the scouts is the PLC. And the only one who should be conveying the "scout messages" from the PLC to the committee/parents is The Scoutmaster.

 

It sounds like your 30+ year SM has retired in-place.

 

 

 

[evry 10]

Thanks all...good sound advice! It is easier said than done to ignore this parent and concentrate on my son's scouting experience. Beavah hit the nail on the head when he said that the parent's actions are "indirectly compromising da program for other boys in small ways." As Thomas54 suggested, I'll float up and down on this one and let the rest of the year show me whether my son is having fun and whether he wants to continue with this troop or not. By early next year, it'll be time to reevaluate.

[Knot Head 10]

Sometimes you just have to *try* as best you can to ignore some folks in your troop and make sure you are trying to do things the right way.

[evry 10]

I wasn't going to say anything more on this, but I just got an e-mail that I wanted to share to show how far a rogue parent can go.

 

One of the ASMs suggested a different program structure in order to have true Patrols and a functioning PLC. The rogue parent's son is presently a "Patrol Leader"....of course in title only. We are having elections for new SPL and PLs tonight.

 

Here is what the parent suggests:

 

"One idea regarding the elections tonight may be to not have them since the leaders in place now really did not get to lead. I know that the SPL may want to step down, but the patrol leaders could stay in place and we could just elect a new senior patrol leader if the present SPL does not want to commit to another 6 months."

 

Agggggggghhhhhhhh.......my sanity is quickly vanishing!

[shortridge 184]

And that might be a good idea, if it was the PLC's. A six-month "term of office" is completely arbitrary. But it shouldn't come from an adult.

[Twocubdad 665]

I would very quickly hit reply and say that for the ADULTS to suspend PL elections because ADULTS don't feel the current crop of PLs did anything is completely counter to both the Patrol Method and the idea of a Boy led troop. The boys need to decide this for themselves while ALL the adults stand quietly in the back of the room.

 

Secondly, you need to invite the ASM who suggested a different program structure out to lunch TOMORROW. Now it's not just you out there whining. Two of you makes it an organization; one more and you have yourself a movement!

[rdclements 10]

OK, lots of good input in this thread. Fixing the unit is unlikely and you can expect that journey to be uphill all the way. Your son needs to consider the stay/go question seriously.

 

However, if you choose to stay, you also are choosing to follow and support the leadership of the unit. Don't be that guy who sits in the back and complains about every little thing. You're either all in or all out.

[DeanRx 69]

I disagree that you're either all-in or all-out on this one. I do agree that you are facing an unwinnable battle if you think you are going to take this on.

 

Is your son having fun, learning new things and progressing in his scout-career? If the answer is YES, teh only real negative I see is the loss of youth leadership development your son will not be afforded, because this troop has "adult PL's".

 

The bottom line is this ASM will continue to run things and run over people as long as the SM allows it to happen and it sounds like the committee is more than willing to play along. I say - ask your son what HE wants to do. Have a frank discussion with him about the concerns you have and weigh the pros and cons of leaving to another troop or staying put. Then let the boy decide on his own.

 

Just because his troop is not "boy led" - doesn't mean you can't allow this decision to be "boy led".

[moosetracker 132]

If your son is really set about not moving, and he can be independent enough not to get roped into the meritbadge mill. Then float for a while in hopes this guy finishes up and his son can get all the mb's and Eagle by 13 and then leaves the troop, so the troop can hopefully settle back down. But I believe there is a point in time, where the parent can tell the son that it is time to move, if the troop is totally against the parents basic belief system, or you think the troop is not training self-suffiency of the boys but are in the current society trend to make the boys dependent on the adults and totally self-centered.. You have a parent son doing this, and committee/SM is allowing it, but not sure if the whole troop is promoting this to all the boys "yet".

 

If your son is at all wavering with moving to a new troop, then give him the option to visit a few of the neighboring troops, no strings attached. There is always a wish to stick with what you know good or bad, and a fear of the unknown. So work on making the unknown known.

 

Your son may be more eager to move if he see something he becomes excited about moving to. A program he likes either in the style of the troop meetings or future events planned, kids he knows from his school who he didn't know were in this other troop, the way he sees how the PLC really get the ability to run their own troop.

 

Now your son can make a decision knowing what he may be leaving, and what he may be leaving it for, rather then choosing between the known and the unknown.