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Do (or should) scouts really pay their own way?


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I'll disagree with Beavah to this extent: I don't think "A Scout pays his own way" has to mean the Scout pays 100%. The point -- to me -- is that the Scout IS getting skin in the game with sweat equity if nothing else. Consequently, I don't see that the message is disjointed or that it's a bad lesson for the boys. You can instill the values in the boys of BOTH working toward their goals AND helping others.

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"A Scout pays his own way" has to mean the Scout pays 100%.

 

Yah, but that's sorta what the phrase means to an ordinary human, ain't it? It sure seemed that way to me in FScouter's original post.

 

I agree with my fellow Beaver in that what we don't want to teach is entitlement. It's just fine, as a learning exercise, to have boys earn a few bucks toward their activities. In some ways, I think socialist programs like public schooling do teach entitlement to both kids and parents.

 

But, as someone pointed out, putting a "tax" on a boy's scouting does what taxes always do, eh? They discourage commerce. The more yeh tax kids for scouting, the more kids will choose other things rather than pay da tax. School sports are free for the lad, so a choice between sports and scouts becomes easier. Hangin' out at da mall or playin' video games is also "tax free". When yeh want to encourage a behavior like scouting, which on its own involves a lot of work learning and planning and such, yeh don't tax it. Yeh subsidize it.

 

For that reason and others, I think we do want to teach generosity and gratitude. It's OK to accept a campership, or a scholarship, and a lad who accepts such things to further his scouting or his education shouldn't be saddled with negative attitudes about "taking handouts" or "not paying his own way." That's da problem with making "a scout pays his own way" into a value, rather than just a learning exercise on the road to developing a healthy work ethic. It's a fine learning exercise. It's just a lousy value.

 

Fact is, if yeh really obey da labor laws, and value time for schoolwork and educational enrichment activities, most scouts can't possibly pay their own way. Not enough unskilled labor jobs out there to have every kid do what jblake did, and not every lad has the wit and intellect to balance commitments the way he did. :) Working during da school year is strongly associated with poor grades and dropping out of school, eh? Is that what we want to encourage?

 

For me, I think da generosity lesson is more important. It goes to multiple points of the Scout Law and Oath, not just one - Loyal, Helpful, Kind, Reverent. Scouting, like every not-for-profit enterprise, is absolutely reliant on da charity and generosity of others. Soliciting for charity, and contributing to charity, and accepting the generosity of charity are all wonderful things that bind society together. They should be encouraged, not frowned upon or denigrated as "begging for a handout" or whatnot. We want to teach our lads to be donors someday, eh? To look on tithing and charitable giving as a great thing, even an obligation.

 

Only way I know to do that well is to also teach that it's OK to humbly accept charity and be grateful for it, like any gift. Camperships and FOS and corporate donations to councils and units are just members of da community saying "we believe in you, and want to be a part of your life in the small ways we can."

 

That should be celebrated.

 

Beavah

 

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I think the meaning of A Scout earns his own way is clear to all. Theres no need to obfuscate the underlying concept. Boys are not so stupid as to know when they earn their own way and when troop adults got a free handout.

 

Teaching charity and generosity to others is a wonderful thing. You don't teach that by putting yourself on the receiving end and accepting handouts. That teaches how to get on the dole. You teach charity by BEING generous and charitable by GIVING to others.

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You don't teach that by putting yourself on the receiving end and accepting handouts.

 

Nah, Fscouter, that doesn't work, eh? It can't be simultaneously good to give charity and bad to receive it. If it's bad to receive charity then giving charity must also be a bad thing, since it does harm to others.

 

Da Christian notion is that each should give according to his ability and take according to his need, eh? It's a righteous act to accept a scholarship or campership, because it teaches humility, and respect for the generosity of others, and allows them to be able to perform an act of generosity. It's an OK thing to sell overpriced, low quality popcorn for da same reason - it's really just an invitation to others to be generous for a cause.

 

Like anything, charity can be abused. On da receiving end, it can become a demand or expectation, taking advantage of the generosity of others. On the giving end, charity can also be abused, eh? When it is used to manipulate people, or to feel superior or self-righteous. Both are wrong. Seems to me that by worrying about da first you are committing the second.

 

Just MHO, of course.

 

Beavah

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I think that people who have been on the receiving end of charity learn more about how to give charity to others with grace and with respect for the common humanity of the giver and receiver, and about the positive (even life-changing) impact that charity can have on others. People who have no idea what it really is like to receive, seem more likely to be very arrogant givers, turning the whole process into something sordid.

 

Of course it works the other way, too. There is such a thing as receiving charity with grace and dignity, as well. And those on the receiving end should also find some ways to "pay it forward" (to borrow on a '90s movie title).

 

 

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I think most everyone here can see through straw man arguments and red herrings. No one said its bad to receive charity and unsolicited gifts. What serves no purpose in Scouting is for troop adults to abdicate the opportunities to teach boys the value of money and to be self-reliant and independent by instead seeking out free money. An unsolicited gift is one thing, but the Scouting program does not involve adults trolling for dollars. Its pretty clear what that teaches boys.

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our rent-a-scouts get around child labor laws because each is a self-employed independent. One can own their own business at any age.

Most have gone through the babysitter certification programs, the house repair type merit badges or their equivalent. We do worry about them keeping their grades up, and have lettered their parents or guardians about this. During the school year we encourage working a half-day Saturday only (unless we are out camping, of course). It is common for the more experienced to bring home $20 to 40 each week. This is enough for their Scouting activities.

They choose to pay for Scouting rather than hang out for free at the mall because of program, program, program

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What serves no purpose in Scouting is for troop adults to abdicate the opportunities to teach boys the value of money and to be self-reliant and independent by instead seeking out free money.

 

Yah, sorry to be so dense and to keep wrestling with this, eh?

 

Fscouter, is it bad for a scout to apply for a campership or an Eagle scholarship ("seeking out free money" instead of being self-reliant and independent)?

 

Is it bad for me to solicit FOS contributions ("seeking out free money") to provide those camperships and scholarships and gear for Scoutreach units?

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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Beavah,

 

I just returned from Jamboree. I've spent the last 18 months having monthly Jamboree committee meetings with the leadership of our other two contingent troops. I aslo went in 2005. We always have kids sign up who can't afford Jamboree and need help. That is fine, it needs to be open to all and those who are in true need, should be helped. The part that dismays us is that many of those same kids/families who have trouble making ends meet are the ones who will NOT participate in the fundraisers we do to help pay for Jamboree. What the heck? We'll help you, but we expect you to put some effort into it yourself rather than have it handed to you. You are not entitled to it.

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School sports are free for the lad...

 

In an increasing number of school districts, that would merely mean that the parents are paying the fees themselves and not requiring their students to help out. In my state at least, there is a growing trend in public school districts to charge some fee (usually not the full cost of the activity) for sports and sometimes other extracurricular activities as well. So (as with dues and other fees for Scouting), a parent has the choice of paying the whole thing out of their pocket, or require their children to contribute.

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In our Troop, 2/3's of the proceeds from fundraisers go directly into a Scout's account. This encourages the Scout to build up money to fund future campouts, summer camps, etc.

 

In the end, however, it's the generosity of parents, FOS, and scout volunteers that provide the opportunities and encouragement for Scouts to pay their own way.

 

 

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The part that dismays us is that many of those same kids/families who have trouble making ends meet are the ones who will NOT participate in the fundraisers we do to help pay for Jamboree. What the heck?

 

Yah, that's often da case, SR540. The people who have time to give are the people who are well enough off, eh? Folks in real need will almost never participate in da fundraisers. Their real needs take priority.

 

Just pickin' through our list, I know that one lad is from a single parent home, mom is barely gettin' by, address has changed several times in a year, etc. That boy and that family are usin' up all their energy just tryin' to keep a step ahead of disaster. Yeh think they have time to go sell popcorn for a few bucks? Unlike white suburban kids, they don't have relatives ready to spend bucks on that, nor friends in dad's company who are willing to kick in for a tin.

 

But I can tell yeh, while Jambo is just "another great thing" for many boys, for boys like this one, it is "the one biggest thing ever."

 

We aren't being truly kind and generous if we blame the people we are helping, instead of quietly praying "there, but for the grace of God, go I". I might be wrong, but I reckon that's da point Lisabob was tryin' to make.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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I think I'm gonna hurl...

 

Yah, F, I never would have figured yeh for being Irish. I once got talked into hurling when visitin' friends outside of Dublin as a much younger Beavah. Wicked game, that.

 

B

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Beavah,

 

If they can't afford it and they don't have the time to work towards it, why would they sign up for it in the first place? Our Jambo fee was $3,000 and the availabe funds to help were very small. They were still on the hook for the bulk of it. We had a variety of fundraisers that really wouldn't be a burden for anyone to do. We have a local fundraising company that manufactures bacon and sausage. Everyone in our state knows and loves the product. It sells itself. I sent out a single email to 30 or 40 people I deal with at work and sold $900 worth with only a few keystrokes.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm a charitable person.....I really am. I've tuaght it to my son and to our scouts. There are some real people out there with some real needs. There are far more people who have discovered it is easier to do nothing and let other people care for them. Some of the folks looking for help to go to Jambo were from my troop and I know their situation. They have the time and ability to fundraise, they choose not to.

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