Suspected Drugs...

[eolesen 10]

Hypothetical situation... You have a crew getting ready to go out on a high adventure trek, and based on an anonymous tip, find out one of the boys may have a problem with drugs and try to bring them along.

 

The crew is planning to do a shake-out and leave their packs at the troop meeting place the night before departing.

 

If you had access to drug sniffing dogs, would you consider checking out the gear without the crew's knowledge? Without parents' knowledge?

 

 

[WAKWIB 107]

While you may have a real reason for concern, the search thing to me seems a bit over the top. If you have strong enough reason to suspect a problem that you would consider the drug sniffing dogs, wouldn't it maybe just be better to confront the boy first. That may be enough to at least keep him from bringing the drugs along.

If it's truly a case of suspected possession, I would think police rather than you should be handling a search process.

[Crew21_Adv 25]

eolesen,

 

Greetings!

 

There are many amateur lawyers. But if you are asking for an opinion, I would not conduct a drug sniffing dog at the crew-level, just prior to a trek, without the youths/parents knowledge.

Here is my opinion..

 

The laws have changed about "probable cause", about 10 years ago. Your local police station, as law enforcement officers are trained in "probable cause".

 

Obviously, An Advisor has a responsibility to the entire Crew, the youth and their parents. That other Venturing youth do not first-time experiment with recreational drugs or that they are offered, during a Venturing event.

 

As an Advisor, if you were wrong, and wrongly searched a youth's backpack and trail equipment, could you be held liable for slander? Also, if you were correct, but ignored the anonymous tip and did nothing, and then a youth Venturer offered recreational drugs to other Venturers. Would you be held liable?

 

A few years ago, within my own troop. One 17 y/o Eagle brought hard liquor in his own car to a campout. Later that evening, my Scoutmaster, discovered the boys hiding place and drinking game about 30-45 minutes into their disappearance. Five Life Scouts, had finished six bottles and were well intoxicated and nauseated, by the end of the hour. The Scoutmaster drove all the boys home to their parents that night; with urgent committee meetings held that Monday. Finger pointing and arguments occurred during that committee meeting. Although it was secretly planned by the older youth, it caused many, many problems within the troop and community.

 

My Crew has invited a health/drug counselor to regular meetings. The counselor brings "drunk goggles" and other simulation devices. (writing your name on a paper with the opposite hand, with one eye closed, while trying to drink a glass of water, etc).

 

I have heard of a High School assembly, where the local police and K9 unit demonstrated the ability of their dogs. Five bags of marijuana (wrap in cellophane, and put in tube socks), were specifically distributed to the senior class officers, once the dog identified them they were to drop the bag for the dogs to retrieve back to the assembly stage. The assembly was pretty well thought out, to demonstrate the danger of drugs, and the grand finale the K9 scenario was equally well staged to demonstrate that drugs are illegal and you will get caught. At the end of the assembly, the K9 dogs brought back all five "staged" bags, plus four extra similar "dime" bags.

 

So, in my opinion. Do you offer a safe environment for all Venturers and Parents? I would say, Yes. Do you conduct a narcotics check, without their knowledge? I would say, No.

 

Without their knowledge, is my own personal disagreement.

 

Could you offer them amnesty? Submit to inspection, or you may refuse; but refusal will disqualify you from the trek.

 

Your COR should probably have a no drug policy and/or rehabilitation policy within their institution. Your COR and local law enforcement, and possibly even the High School principal can advice on probable cause and inspections without their consent.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Stosh 3452]

If it was me and I suspected potential problems, I would head it off at the pass. Announce that before you leave a thorough inspection check will be held for everyone to make sure they have what they need and nothing more.....

 

Stosh

[Stone Cold 10]

You can check their gear all you want, if you don't do a pat down of the person what good is it?

[Stosh 3452]

The suspected person is a master at deception. They have kept it from the police, from their parents, from school teachers, and many of their friends. Why would a SM think any kind of search is going to produce any results, and if it does what's next? Are you prepared to go to the police with what you found? Parents?, SE/DE? etc.

 

Unless you plan on doing a drug-dog, and body cavity strip search, I'm thinking you're pretty much wasting your time.

 

All this on an anonymous tip? I don't think so. An anonymous tip doesn't constitute probable cause. What kind of can of worms is being opened here if it's just one boy jerking the chain of another for fun?

 

At best, I'd give the heads-up to the parents that I got an anonymous tip on their son and let them handle it.

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn 729]

The assumption is that if the lad is going to bring drugs, he's going to put it in his pack and leave it overnight.

 

I wouldn't leave it in a pack overnight - I'd bring it with the next day and put it in my pack then.

 

Just something to think about.

[Vicki 11]

I hate "anonymous tips." Cowardly at best, malicious at worst.

 

Since this is a high adventure trek, you're going to be in fairly intimate quarters. I would do the normal shakedown process, keep an eye on the scout and call it a day. Depending on your relationship with the scout (I'm guessing you don't know him well since you're willing to believe this tipster) you might take him aside and tell him what happened. As Stosh points out, if this scout is guilty, he will be a master at deceiving adults, but at least he'll be on notice that either a) he's busted, or b) somebody he knows has it in for him. I wouldn't recommend this if the tipster had made himself known to you but you have nothing to protect here except possibly the reputation of the accused.

 

This is, of course, assuming that you haven't noticed behavior changes, different friends, isolation, etc., on the part of the scout. If you actually have a reason to believe something is going on beyond the word of a coward who obviously doesn't trust you, then that is a whole different story.

 

Vicki

[Twocubdad 665]

Not sure how an anonymous tip works in this situation. Did they leave a note on your bunk? A phone call talking through a hankerchief? And hypothetically, where do you think you're going to get a drug dog. The police don't just loan the dogs out, willy-nilly. Either you involve the police or you don't.

 

If I have reasonable information, I'm going to act on. I'm not the police or a court officer. I'm not concerned with criminal procedure or rules of evidence. I'm concerned with the safety of the Scouts.

 

Kids know that at school, adults are handcuffed by all sorts of rules. They know if they keep their mouths shut and don't admit to anything, they have to be caught red-handed to get into any sort of serious trouble. I have no such constraints.

 

Consequently, I'd deal with the problem directly and schedule a meeting with the Scout and his parents. The conversation would be very short and one sided and go something like this:

 

"I have been told -- and by whom is unimportant -- that you may have a problem with drug use and there is some concern that you may bring drugs with you on the trip. I have no idea if this is true or not and I am not here to accuse you of anything. It's not my place to investigate this. Neither is it my problem to solve. This is an issue for your family to discuss and solve among yourselves.

 

"BUT, I am here to tell you that once we are on the trip, if I find any evidence of drug use or possession by anyone on the trip, it will be turned over to the nearest law enforcement agency. As the adult in charge, I will authorize the police to search everyone and everything thoroughly. If you are arrested, you will sit in jail until your parents bail you out. Even if you are not arrested, you will be off the trip immediately and your parents will be responsible for picking you up."

 

My sons attend a summer music camp run by a retired military guy. This is basically his approach. The school attracts folks from middle school through retirees. Occassionally some of the college-aged kids think they can get away with having alcohol or pot with them. Every couple years he'll have someone hauled away by the local sheriff. That pretty much vaccinates the camp for the next few years.

 

On a high adventure trip, actually following through on this may vary depending on logisitcs and the cooperation of local law enforcement. But if the kids know there is a high cost of getting caught, they would have to be pretty stupid or have a pretty bad habid to try anything under those circumstances.

 

 

[evmori 11]

I'm more concerned by the form of the tip - anonymous. And how real is this hypothetical situation? Or is someone trolling for info on how to get away with this?

[Eamonn 61]

My 2 Cents.

Scouting for me is all about relationships.

I kinda, sorta think (Or like to think!) I know the Scouts in my care.

With this in mind. I hope that I wouldn't have to rely on a tip to know that a Scout was having a problem with drugs.

Again, my hope would be that I'd do everything I could to help "Fix the problem".

I know that I don't have the skills needed to really fix it, but I would talk to the Scout, his parents and try and see that he gets all the help that he needs.

There is a difference between a Lad who has a problem and the lad who is going to bring something along on a trip just for "Fun" or for some sort of thrill.

This can be avoided by clear communication about what is and what isn't acceptable behavior before the trip along with what the consequences are for un-acceptable behavior.

Ea.

[sherminator505 10]

"And how real is this hypothetical situation? Or is someone trolling for info on how to get away with this?"

 

Tinfoil hats are not recommended headgear for Scouters.

[Vicki 11]

Yeah, Sherminator, I wondered about that one too - the OP has over 300 posts. Not too likely for a troll, eh? I just figured it was lovable, cuddly Ev...

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[dScouter15 11]

I'm a bit confused by this hypothetical situation. Some things to consider:

 

- What kind of "drugs?" I'd be surprised if, while on a high-adventure trek, a scout would have adequate privacy to administer most illegal drugs, and not be observed "under the influence." What kind of trek is this?

 

- Why would the scout in question pack illegal drugs in his pack and leave them at the meeting place overnight? Why not just keep them on his person?

 

- How credible is this anonymous tip? Are your own observations of the scout's behavior consistent with this anonymous tip?

 

- How would you have access to drug sniffing dogs? Are you trained in how to work with the dogs, and interpret their behavior?

 

- What would you do if the dogs found something? Are you sure the results from your search would be legally admissible in court?

 

So, no, I'd strongly encourage you not to follow through with this plan. There are other, effective, less extreme measures that can be used to informally investigate suspected drug use, and other more appropriate channels to follow if necessary.

[eolesen 10]

Thanks for the candid replies, even Ed's.

 

It's hypothetical to a degree.... I'm altering and leaving specifics intentionally because even though we're in a small desert town where the internet still means dial-up, I don't want this to wind up being connected to anyone real.

 

We have a Scout who was caught stealing at school earlier this year, confessed, apologized, and has since made restitution. As time has gone on and people find out, other people who have kids who a) associate with him and b) have also had small high value items lost or stolen are starting to speak up. Then this tip comes up.

 

Frankly, he fits the profile for what I'd consider an at-risk kid for using drugs. The parents are still in denial about the theft issue, and he's shown before that he's either a really good actor or maybe he just thinks he's smarter than the adults...

 

As I said, there are people who want to simply wash their hands of him, regardless if any of the suspicions are substantiated or not, and there are people who know that Scouting could turn him back onto the right path.

 

There is a private security firm friendly to the troop who has dogs. I'm not even sure if the county has a K9 unit, much less the local PD. They probably use the private company on contract...

 

We're guessing pot. That's a bit bulky to be carried on one's person without being too uncomfortable, which is why we think he'd try and stash it somewhere in his day pack (which will is also required to be left at the meeting place after the shakeout, so the QMs can load everything up and maximize the available space *before* Scouts arrive for departure).