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ASM59

Transporting Scouts

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Good Day,

 

I was at a Committee Meeting tonight and we were discussing number of seats available to take Scouts to Summer Camp. It was brought up that no Scout can ride in the front passenger seat unless it is the son of the driver. This is a youth protection issue and only your own son or another adult should occupy the other front seat. When asked about this, it was said that it is in the G2SS. So, in order to verify this, I am looking though the G2SS and cannot find any such wording. I may be missing it, so I am coming to you all to see if you know the source of this "rule".

 

Is it a real G2SS rule? If so, what section is it in?

Is it a rule/suggestion found in another location?

Is it just one of those mythical rules that really doesn't exist?

 

I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with the rule if indeed it is real. The problem we have is that I do not have a son going to camp and was counting on the "shotgun" seat for one of the Scouts. Without that seat available, we may have to ask another person to make the drive to deliver the extra Scout. I do not recall having ever seen such verbage in the G2SS. Can anyone help?

 

ASM59

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HUH????

 

It's ALL Boldface (meaning BSA policy), but I challenge anyone to find the piece of arcane knowledge and Indian Lore you've been told by your Committee, Mr ASM59:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss12.aspx#a

 

 

Automobiles

 

It is essential that adequate, safe, and responsible transportation be used for all Scouting activities. Because most accidents occur within a short distance from home, safety precautions are necessary, even on short trips.

 

General guidelines are as follows:

 

1. Seat belts are required for all occupants.

2. All drivers must have a valid driver's license that has not been suspended or revoked for any reason. If the vehicle to be used is designed to carry more than 15 persons, including the driver (more than 10 persons, including the driver, in California), the driver must have a commercial driver's license (CDL).

3. An adult leader (at least 21 years of age) must be in charge and accompany the group.

4. The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions:

1. Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted)

2. No record of accidents or moving violations

3. Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders

5. Passenger cars or station wagons may be used for transporting passengers, but passengers should not ride on the rear deck of station wagons.

6. Trucks may not be used for transporting passengers except in the cab.

7. All driving, except short trips, should be done in daylight.

8. All vehicles must be covered by automobile liability insurance with limits that meet or exceed requirements of the state in which the vehicle is licensed. It is recommended that coverage limits are at least $50,000/$100,000/$50,000. Any vehicle designed to carry 10 or more passengers is required to have limits of $100,000/$500,000/$100,000.

9. Do not exceed the speed limit.

10. Do not travel in convoy (see "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings," No. 2).

11. Driving time is limited to a maximum of 10 hours and must be interrupted by frequent rest, food, and recreation stops. If there is only one driver, the driving time should be reduced and stops should be made more frequently.

 

Don't drive drowsy. Stop for rest and stretch breaks as needed. Fatigue is a major cause of highway accident fatalities.

 

Reference: Tours and Expeditions, No. 33737

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Hey,

 

I looked before I posted the above, but only just now found a previous thread (2005) that discusses the same thing:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=104083#id_104319

 

The general concensus was that this is just a rule someone made up. I cannot find it in G2SS either and the text John posted above is the same area I looked in. I also have looked over most of the rest of the G2SS also. I don't believe it's in there.

 

I know that you have to be careful because of air bags and weight limits that are sometimes imposed by state laws, but if I have a 14 year old Scout who meets the weight limit to safely ride in the front seat I would think that's OK. Of course there would be other Scouts in the car as well. Any comments? Anyone else heard of this?

 

Thanks,

ASM59

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:) LOL.

 

Yah, dat's a new one. I'm still laughin', in fact. Where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Complete urban legend. Nothing at all like that anywhere in any BSA materials.

 

And it's been what, like 20 years since the high-velocity airbag incidents with a few kids? How old is your car? :) All vehicles have low-velocity airbags these days, and almost all modern vehicles have passenger weight sensors. If not, yeh can get your dealer to install an airbag off switch if you're transportin' kids.

 

Your instincts are right, ASM59. This is completely bogus.

 

Beavah

 

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LOL...I'm going to have to add that one to my list of "Scout Rules" that people have made up! Now there IS the possiblity that it is a rule of your COR, but I doubt that they would be that specific.

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The only thing that stated to the fact is what behind your passenger-side visor or in your car owner's manual recommending the size and weight of the frontseat passenger. We know that this will protect the small-size passenger from serious injury in case the airbag is deployed. Most of the newer cars have sensor that will detect weight that is less than 80 lbs where the airbag is turned off automatically. Older cars will have a switch where one can turn off the airbag. Personally, I usually have my SPL (or one of the senior leader) riding shotgun when I drive. I have his undivided attention for the 1-3 hours drive. This is when we go over the plan for the campout among other things that are usually talked about in a Scoutmaster conference. I would also chalk it down as another Scouting Urban Legend. So far this method has gained me an SPL from an unlikely candidate and inspired two others to step up on separate campouts, but the effect only lasted that campout! :)

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As One hour does, I use travel time to talk to the SPL as well. On some long drives we have conducted our entire monthly PLC.

 

Another reason for having a different scout beside my own riding shotgun, my kid is clueless as a navigator. Mind you he is old enough to drive himself, but we still need to give him directions to get home even in town.

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Does the 2-deep leadership not apply when driving? I tried asking my Committee and District this before with no luck.

 

And can someone explain the "do not travel in convoy" rule for a 16-18 yr old driver?

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Isn't it if two or more boys are in the car at all times, transportation is alright with one adult in the car? So if you're driving a boy home, as long as your son is in the car, you're okay.

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I have spoken to our CC who says that she wasn't sure about the whole thing, but wasn't confident enough to speak up at the meeting. I said that if the Committee wants to make this a "Troop rule" then I'd abide by it, but that I needed to know so we can plan for seat space on outings. She said that as far as she is concerned that we will follow the G2SS and if it doesn't say anything, then we're OK to allow the front seat to be occupied.

 

ASM59

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first off... artjrk - I'm glad to hear it's not just my child that has directional issues. Though my problem is with our daughter... we've had to send our son with her at times to help with directions (he's almost 15 and she's almost 17) She's been getting college booklets and such and my husband and I realized that there is only 1 college she can go to because she'd never find herself to and from any of the others - of course she doesn't want to go THERE.

 

if this is a rule I sure have never heard of it... for me it depends on the vehicle I'm driving. if I'm in the truck then I only have the front seat and will put me and then 2 scouts. but if I'm in my jeep then I need 2 small scouts in the back seat, and while my son is older than some he's still littler than many and ends up in the back seat.

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It could be a confusion of the state rules and Boy Scout rules. Maybe it applied when they were Cub Scouts due to their age in that state and someone assumed it was a Boy Scout rule and has now forgotten about the age and state implication.

 

Glad to hear it was worked out with your committee chair.

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As far as BSA is concerned, two-deep does not apply to a vehicle, only to the trip itself. No one-on-one is what applies to vehicle transport.

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Not only will you not find this "rule" in any BSA publication, but it doesn't even make any sense. Safety, huh? So a 17 year old, 6'2", 195 pound scout, bigger than most full grown men, needs to sit in the back of an ASM's Civic, while an 11 year old, 85 pound scout "safely" gets to sit up front simply because he shares some DNA with the driver?

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