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Engineer61

Scout Priorities and Responsibilities (Vent)

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I'd agree with Calico on the whole "monitor my kid" for me...I wouldn't do it either.

 

In general, participation in activities (from Scouts to video games) are dependent on school performance. In addition to such "negative motivators", I also support and perform "positive motivators" for excellence....just as my employer does.

 

 

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"Note that Troop is dead last and more notably behind School. "

 

Could just be alphabetical order. :-)(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

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LOL!

 

So, with all of the exactness in every other aspect of Scouting, you'd like to maintain that this part of Scout Law is randomly constructed with no more thought than alphabetical order?

 

That's a good one!

 

Thanks for the chuckle!

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"Engineer61, I'm curious how yeh reconcile that with the Scout Oath and Law?"

 

I don't. Because the Oath and Law are not the overriding laws of my family. I am.

 

Yah, hmmmm. Yeh have an oddly solipsistic view of family, there. Gotta wonder what Mrs. Engineer61 would have to say about that. :)

 

But if you're being honest, then I'm left wonderin' why do yeh want your kids to be in Boy Scouting, where we teach a different set of values than those held by your family?

 

That's bound to cause some tension, eh? Us teachin' duty to God as Priority 1, and duty to country as Priority 2, and helping other people at all times as Priority 3; of including Trustworthy and Loyal as number 1 and 2 in da Scout Law, and all those others that modify and inform our view of Obedient.

 

Are yeh sure we're really da right program for your needs?

 

For Scoutin', school and other types of Advancement are never Priority One. They're just methods that we use along da way to achieve our real Aims.

 

Beavah

 

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We treat Scouting solely as a means to an end. Not the reverse. Scouting's priorities are not necessarily our priorities. That should be obvious to you by this entire thread.

 

Scouting, to some extent, does not mesh with our goals. But we will tolerate it as long as our son continues to enjoy it, maintains his academic performance and continues develop the moral and social characteristics that we follow.

 

Unfortunately, there is not a significant alternative....so we have to tolerate the negatives to gain the positives.

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

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Calico:

 

As I see it, this has nothing to do with adding requirements. It has to do with living up to the Scout Oath, and the definition of Spirit. Not maintaining at least average grades, if one does not have special issues, is simply not "doing their best", as I noted earlier. And that IS my responsibility as a SM. I have yet to have a parent complain; matter of fact, they have agreed with me in the few instances this has come up.

 

What we consider important in interpreting our role as counselor when doing conferences is very subjective. But I personally expect more perhaps than some might, especially at the higher levels of advancement.

 

I suspect that no matter what I say, many will consider me to be out of line. But when we say "A Scout Is .....", we are putting forth the expectation that they will actually adhere, "the best they can", to the Law, and as an extension, the Oath.

 

JMHO

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Unless K-12 does things differently from the university (and I suspect they have similar if not the same requirements for confidentiality), grades are confidential, only available to the appropriate faculty, the student, and the student's parents (if the student is a minor).

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We treat Scouting solely as a means to an end. Not the reverse. Scouting's priorities are not necessarily our priorities... we have to tolerate the negatives to gain the positives.

 

Yah, fair enough. :)

 

I reckon we parents do that with all da programs our kids engage in. And with all the friends they choose to have too, eh?

 

And I reckon our kids tolerate da negatives of us as parents to gain the positives too! :)

 

Seems to me that you were a registered leader in your son's troop. That's a bit of a different level than just a parent pickin' a program. As leaders, we sorta have an obligation to lead and teach in a way that's consonant with our CO and/or da BSA (dependin' on our role). Isn't it?

 

Not tryin' to be a pain in the kiester, BTW. Just being friendly and conversational. Kick the young fellow's behind if he should be doin' better in school, by all means. :)

 

Beavah

 

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By Engineer61

 

"Oldest and Youngest are practically identical in demeanor. No, that's not a positive statement. Good news is the girl is 18 and starting to show glimpses of progress.

The middle is the saint...does what he supposed to with little or no input from anyone.

I'm pretty much to my fed-up line with this nonsense. Considering overseas military boarding school options ..."

 

I sure hope your kids don't read these, or that they don't pick up on that vibe at home. That would be very bad. Now that the youngest knows how to get a big rise out of you, he will likely intentionally fail stuff, just to make you mad, the more you push. It's part of growing up and separating from their parents, you'll just magnify it.

 

"To those that wish to minimize the importance and priority of education, (and I am amazed how many of you there are) my response is ... no education, no job....no matter how many Eagle's you have. "

 

So do you honestly believe he is on the slippery slope to failing school or dropping out? Talk about hyperbole. I'm also an engineer (from a highly respected engineering program) and got very good grades in middle and high school. Yet somehow, the "C" average kids managed to get jobs too. It's amazing isn't it? I'm an Eagle, and having it did make a difference on a scholarship application once.

 

"So you're saying that it's perfecting fine to raise the next village idiot, as long as he went Scouting?!?!?"

 

So, dropping a letter grade in one class turns your kid into the village idiot? More hyperbole perhaps? Everyone screws up, it's part of the learning process. Keep this tension and obvious anger going, and you are going to have bigger problems later.

 

"I simply refer to it as "Teacher's Prerogative" just as my boss can exercise "Management Prerogative" and reassign my design tasks/requirements/dates as he sees fit."

 

Hmmm, I don't accept that. I will not accept that from my boss. I will not allow my job to run my life. Separating the two and having balance is important. If nothing else, maybe Scouting will help your son have balance. I wish him luck. When my kids were in elementary school, some teachers went "handout" crazy, with these assignments that were completely useless waste of times. More than once I told my kids to not do the assignment and not worry about the grade. The teacher won't fail you because you skipped a couple stupid handouts, or didn't color a whole page.

 

Seriously, consider a few sessions of professional counseling, for both you and your son. I think you are beyond what advice from a forum can give.

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As an Eagle and a PE, I can see where you are coming from, Engineer61. But please, how did this situation develop? If the boy is not telling you about what is going on at school, how come? Why isn't the communication happening? Does your kid's middle school use journals? If so, do you check it?

 

It seems that the Scout law holds in more aspects than you might realize. For example, a trustworthy Scout wouldn't withhold this kind of info from his Dad. A loyal Scout wouldn't leave his lab partner in the lurch, and so on. Use that. If the boy wishes to continue as a Scout, then it is reasonable to expect Scout-like behavior both in and out of Scouting.

 

It seems that you need to work with this kid on multiple levels. It doesn't sound like he's gotten himself in that much trouble (yet). But by working with the kid, I mean use the teachable moment to let him know where he's headed if he doesn't watch his step. And that the behavior you've seen isn't very Scout-like.

 

Finally, keep in mind that this is middle school. This is where he should be developing the good habits that will take him through high school and beyond. So work with the kid to develop the good habits. If the school doesn't use work journals, it might be a good idea to start your son on one anyway. But keep it in perspective. A learning experience is no reason to blow a gasket.

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From Eagle1982

 

"Hmmm, I don't accept that. I will not accept that from my boss. I will not allow my job to run my life."

 

Must be nice to be independently wealthy. Most of us can't afford to be fired for insubordination. ;)

 

As for slippery slopes, they usually aren't that slippery at the top...it's the middle that gets ya and the quick stop at the end only hurts for a split-second, if you're going fast enough.

 

And generally, I don't take advice to seek counseling off of forums....but you might consider it.

 

As far as Middle School grades, well, they aren't as fake as you might think. If you want to get into advanced classes in HS in my district, you had to have taken advanced courses in middle school. BTDT.

 

So it's not hyperbole if the effects are real....and are they.

 

Sherminator...thanks for the comments...

 

After many more conversations and evaluations, we've realized that there has been multiple communication issues that caused this comedy of errors.

 

There are plenty of resources for assignment schedules for him to use...and he is expected to use them. He also has to priortize his activites.

 

No gaskets were blown in the experience. :)(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

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Venting eh? Kinda reminds me of this cartoon, Engineers can appreciate it http://xkcd.com/406/

 

"'Hmmm, I don't accept that. I will not accept that from my boss. I will not allow my job to run my life.'

 

Must be nice to be independently wealthy. Most of us can't afford to be fired for insubordination."

 

Job interviews are a two way street. Gotta decide who you are willing to work under. Good bosses are training their replacements, instead of scaring their underlings. Engineers, and you should know this, are required to be insubordinate at times. Sorry you chose poorly, but don't take it out on others.

 

"And generally, I don't take advice to seek counseling off of forums....but you might consider it. "

 

Maybe this time you should. So I went back and read some of your other threads, it seems you have not been here too long, but have made a fair number of posts. The "trend" I've noticed is this:

(1) You seem to necromancer a lot of old threads, simply to post a snide or sarcastic comment. This behaviour in forums is normally associated with trolling.

(2) You seem to mention or hint at "control" a lot, that's kind of scary.

(3) You willingly and intentionally choose work over family and fun. Kids gotta love that.

(4) You publicly demean two of your children when comparing them to "the saint"

(5) You don't seem to believe in the patrol method, or the concept of boy led. Preferring adult controlled instead.

(6) You come here and argue against Scouting in general. That's kind of like going to the Ted Nugent forum and arguing against hunting and eating meat.

 

I doubt your son had a "miscomunication", he may have told you that to get you off his back. Kids in the advanced classes have a better handle on what's required than adults give them credit for. Those acts of "sandbagging" are a by-product of a different problem, which will only get worse if not addressed.

 

Now you might think I'm attacking you or your character, but I'm not. An engineer can separate his emotions from the data. You obviously care a lot, and want what's best for your son. Sometimes that means asking a professional for help. But you'll do whatever you want. Let us know in 3-4 years how dropping the hammer hard and frequently worked out.

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""Hmmm, I don't accept that. I will not accept that from my boss. I will not allow my job to run my life."

 

Must be nice to be independently wealthy. Most of us can't afford to be fired for insubordination"

 

I can certainly sympathize. But I think there are a couple of different levels of accepting petty tyrant behavior from you boss. On the one hand, there's "Well, the boss is a jerk and he's wrong, but he signs the paychecks and I need mine. So I'll grit my teeth and do what he says until I can find another job." That's a pretty grown up response.

 

On the other hand, there's another level of accepting behavior, saying "He's the boss so he must be right and that must be the way to run the show. If I ever get promoted to his position, I'm going to treat my subordinates exactly the same way and if they give me any lip I'll fire their butts." That's not so good.

 

NOTE: I am not making any claim about which level of acceptance Engineer61 is avocating. Frankly, I think this thread has moved beyond his son's homework/scouting conflict, since I'm pretty sure Engineer has made up his mind how he's going to handle the orignal situation.

 

But others watching the thread might still be pondering things. Our sons will certainly encounter "my way or the highway" bosses in their lives, and it's a good idea for us to teach them how to deal with such people as best we can. At the very least we should teach them that such behavior is wrong and not to be condoned. It certainly shouldn't be emulated.

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This thread has gone beyond obnoxious. It began as a one parent's vent over his son's recent behavior, and has turned into a way to question the OP's parenting skills, dedication to scouting, qualification to be a leader in said organization, not to mention accusations of trolling and general questioning and speculation about the relationship the father has with his son... it goes on and on. If someone wants to vent, then let them... there is way too much self-righteous judgement being passed along here and it does not speak well of scouting.

 

If I were a mod, I'd lock this.

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