two deep and electronic communication?

[cheffy 10]

I've been hearing that our council is thinking about imposing a new ruling that adult leaders cannot have one on one e mails or phone conversations with youth as it violates the two deep policy.

So when the SPL calls the SM to discuss a meeting agenda they both have to wait until a third party gets on the line. If a Scout needs an Eagle packet sent it also has to be sent to at least one other person.

I can see where council is trying to CYA but this is a little much.

Thoughts?

[ReneScout 10]

Has its merits and certainly would counter any possible verbal abuse, but also seems to be more a hassle than a boon.

[Eamonn 61]

"I've been hearing that our council is thinking about imposing a new ruling that adult leaders cannot have one on one e mails or phone conversations with youth as it violates the two deep policy."

Man Oh Man!!

Can we really get any more daffy??!!

Ea.

 

[Scoutfish 16]

Sounds a bit too much to me. Does that mean a scout needs to get mom and dad on the phone if he calls the SM to say he will be late or unable to make a meeting?

What if SM calls to talk to a parent and the scout just happens to answer the phone? Does the SM hang up or what? He could easily say anything at that time!

[Bando 21]

Seems to me to be a bit excessive. Kid gets lost on the way to a meeting with a merit badge counselor. Pulls out his cell phone, calls the counselor. What's the person supposed to do, not pick up because there's not a third person on the line? That's just one example of how out of hand one could get with this.

 

Two-deep leadership, as I understand it, is a safeguard against physical abuse. It strikes me that this policy is sufficient to keep a scout safe, even if a phone or email conversation were to attempt to set up an improper situation.

[83_Eagle_T148 10]

This would complicate things, but I can see the reason for it.

[DeanRx 69]

STOP THE INSANITY !!

[evmori 11]

How in the world does this violate any YP rule? Violates the two-deep policy? Horse hockey!

[Beavah 205]

Yah, cheffy, before everybody goes bonkers I reckon that you're just hearin' "one of those rumors", eh?

 

Councils really don't have the authority to tell unit leaders what to do at that level. Leastways, not unless they want to significantly increase their liability exposure.

 

More to the point, any decent SE will let folks blather on a bit if that's what it takes to make 'em feel better, but then steer 'em in a more productive direction.

 

No one-on-one is all about preventin' opportunities for (and false accusations of) physical abuse. Two deep is all about makin' sure yeh have a backup adult on an outing in case somethin' happens to the first adult (and to make sure da solo adult has a "check" on judgment calls). Neither have any application to remote communication.

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish 16]

"More to the point, any decent SE will let folks blather on a bit if that's what it takes to make 'em feel better, but then steer 'em in a more productive direction.

"

 

All right, the gig is up! (I'm pulling out my unercover badge!) LOL!

 

Beavah....Are you suggesting that I patronize council, then carry on in a normal same manner?

Surely you jest not!

 

LOL! I completely agree with that line of thinking, and I am so glad to hear somebody say it.

 

Except the dad's who bring "camp punch" for after scouts are asleep!

[JerseyScout 10]

I used to get hung up on including another adult in with all of my e-mail conversations with Scouts. Then I realized that e-mail has a paper trail, so I am pretty well covered. I compromise now, older Scouts I will e-mail directly, new Scouts I will e-mail and include their parents.

 

Two deep on the phone is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[DYB-Mike 10]

Next come the brain implants so that leaders can be monitored to guard against abusive or impure thoughts about the boys. All bases are now covered, cut those liability insurance premiums in half!

 

YIS

Mike

 

[click23 66]

I know in my area a lot of people get hung up on two deep leadership. For example, you cannot have a troop meeting without two adults, or you cannot have a den meeting without two adults in the room. Two deep leadership only applies to trips and outings, from the G2SS "Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings"

 

I think this must be a no one on one contact issue. Well what about scoutmaster conferences, yes they have to be in sight of other people, but are supposed to be out of earshot, will we now have to have a third party listen to the scout and scoutmaster during the conference to make sure he is not verbally abused?

[Eamonn 61]

"would counter any possible verbal abuse,"

Oh Dear!

When it comes to verbal abuse?

I'm guilty!

Have been known and will more than lightly continue to use.

"Don't be a lazy little toad".

"Engage brain before tongue"

"Act your age, not your shoe size".

" I had dark hair before you started to chart that course."

"That knot wouldn't hold up my Grandma's knickers"

"You can be replaced by a trained snake and he wouldn't need a lot of training."

"I think he must have been frightened by a plumber when he was being potty trained."

"Stop acting like a twit."

 

Maybe there is something to this two deep stuff?

Maybe these cute little fellows need to be protected from nasty people like me?

Ea.

( By the way all the above have to be said with an English accent!)

 

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Youth protection guidelines and Two deep leadership are two completely different concepts for two completely different situations.

 

I agree that an "electronic" paper trail exists for all emails.

 

When I have scoutmaster conferences with a scout, I have neither another adult nor scout sit in with us. But there may be 20 or more of us in the room at the time. The idea of having a third person on the line on the phone is a bit excessive. You can't legislate common sense.

 

Are we trying to teach scouts to be fearful of one-on-one contact? How will they respond when they are 17 and going on a job interview? I guess BSA should change the method to "Adults association" so that they never experience a two person conversation. Come on; it's not rocket surgery.