The COR

[click23 66]

Before we hijack another thread, lets bring the discussion here.

 

Some have argued that CORs are neither technically members of the district committee and do not wear silver shoulder loops.

 

I know I have a better reference at home some where, but this is from the previous revision of the Female Adult Leader Uniform Inspection Sheet.

 

"Blouse.

Women wear the long- or short-sleeveblouse. Cub Scout leaders have the option of either theyellow or tan blouse.Boy Scout leaders wear the tanblouse. Venturing leaders wear the green blouse. Shoulder loops are worn on the epaulets according tothe position in which she is functioning, as follows:

Blue- Cub Scouting

Red- Boy Scouting

Blaze- Varsity Scouting

Green- Venturing

Silver- District/council(including chartered organization representative)

Gold- Region/national"

 

 

And from the 2007 revision, not sure if it has been revised since then or not, of the "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America"

 

"Clause 7. In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council."

[AlFansome 10]

"Some have argued that CORs are neither technically members of the district committee and do not wear silver shoulder loops."

 

Axeman's post at http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=265939&p=2 should be enough to put the issue to rest, since it clearly references a document that state that the COR is a member of the district committee and also references a document that states that the COR is a council scouter. Members of the district committee and council scouters wear silver loops. Therefore, the COR wears silver loops.

 

 

[Axeman 10]

We have walked this trail before. We will arrive at the same destination.

 

With the utmost respect toward those who disagree, I continue to believe that the COR is not a unit scouter. I offer the following references in support:

 

Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Article VIII, Section 1, Clause 2:

 

"Unit Scouters. All adult members registered with the unit, except the chartered organization representative who shall be considered a council Scouter."

 

If the rules and regulations of the BSA say that the COR is "considered a council scouter," I believe that the COR is a council scouter. I also offer the following:

 

Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Article VI, Section 3, Clause 7:

 

"In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council."

 

Annual Charter Agreement, BSA No. 28-182R:

 

Appoint a chartered organization representative who is a member of the organization and will coordinate all unit operations within it. He or she will represent the organization to the Scouting district and serve as a voting member of the local council.

 

As a council scouter, the chartered organization representative wears the silver shoulder loops of a council scouter rather than the red or dark green shoulder loops of a unit scouter.

 

The chartered organization representative represents the chartering organization at the council and district level, rather than the units the organization sponsors. Again, I do not dispute the CORs responsibility of supporting the organization's units, and acting as liaison. These are certainly within the seventeen "tasks" of the COR listed on page 7 of BSA publication #33118D. I simply dispute the assertion that the COR is a unit scouter, an assertion often expressed by the members-at-large that typically control the BSAs councils and districts.

 

If I have overlooked something that states the chartered organization representative is a unit scouter, please excuse my error.

 

Regards,

 

Axeman

CR/UC

[Eagle92 110]

Also according to the Insignia Guide found here

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10B.aspx

 

Chartered organization representative, No. 00490, council Scouter,[emphasis added] left sleeve, position 3.

[Crossramwedge 10]

The COR can also hold certian positions in a troop or pack. So does he or she wear the Silver or Green? Or both ). I am a dual person such as this. I personally wear the CC patch and Red shoulder epaulets. Sorry, have not warmed up to the new uniform and various changes that come with it.

[The Blancmange 67]

If the COR wears silver tabs, wouldn't he also NOT wear a unit number? That seems counterintuitive since he is so closely tied to a unit. I'm not suggesting this interpretation is wrong, just doesn't make a lot of sense that the COR would not be identified with the unit.

[AlFansome 10]

 

Technically, no, the COR does not wear the unit number. A couple of reasons:

 

- as stated above, the COR is a council scouter and council scouters don't wear unit numbers

- if a COR is the rep for multiple units (pack, troop, crew,..) with different numbers, which number does he/she wear? (I am in this position, with 5 units with 4 different numbers).

- if the COR is also the committee chair or a committee member, then wearing a shirt with either of those 2 position patches and blue/green/red loops is certainly appropriate.

 

That being said, if a COR is a rep for only one unit and wishes to wear non-silver loops and unit numbers, it would make total sense regardless of the technicalities.

 

 

[Axeman 10]

"So does he or she wear the Silver or Green?"

 

I wear the loops appropriate to the position patch I am currently wearing. I am registered in a Pack (blue), a Troop (red or green), and as a CR and UC (silver). Velcro is wonderful. Applied correctly, the position patch does not stand off the uniform noticeably.

 

"If the COR wears silver tabs, wouldn't he also NOT wear a unit number?"

 

Technically, the CR does not wear unit identification (numbers). Depends on how closely one wants to adhere to uniforming standards. For example, many scouters wear District insignia on their uniform, yet District insignia is not authorized for wear on the uniform.

 

IHMO, the charter organization representative is one of the least understood and under-utilized positions in Scouting, right up there with the position of unit commissioner. In fact, if one makes a line-by-line comparison between the various responsibilities of the CR and the UC, one finds that the two positions are essentially identical, albeit from different sides of the table.

 

Unfortunately, the CR and UC also share the same failing- there is no expectation of performance from either. In a perfect world all UCs would make that one unit visit a month. In a perfect world all CRs would vote at the annual council business meeting. In the real world...

 

"What is the difference between a UFO and a (CR/UC)?"

 

"Some people have actually seen a UFO!"

 

Regards,

 

Axeman

CR/UC

[QuekolisChief 10]

So, who fits the profile of Chartered Organization Represenative, and wouldn't the Chapter/Lodge Advisor already fit that possition?

[Eagle92 110]

'Chief

 

The COR stands for Charter Organization Representative, and that person represents the organization that owns the unit to the district and council. On the district and council levels, CORs are part of the council board and vote on issues there, as well as sit onthe district committee and vote there. On the unit level, they are the ones that approve all unit leaders, and can hire or fire anyone. Only person who can overule the COR on the unit level is his boss, the Institutional Head.

[BadenP 93]

Eagle you are so wrong, the COR's can cast a vote at board meetings, but they are NOT members of the board, they represent the units that their organization sponsors. They are registered on the UNIT CHARTER NOT the council charter which means they are NOT council scouters, otherwise they would be registered along with the council board members. This is not rocket science people, it is simple logic. And Eagle the insignia guide is hardly an accurate source to determine what a COR is, lol. Look they clump the COR patch with the other unit committee patches at the scout store. Most importantly you have to be selected to the council executive committee you do not have membership automatically, otherwise you would be registered on the council charter, the COR's only tie to council is that they have a vote at the general committee meeting and that is all.

[Eagle92 110]

BP,

well there is a lot of other documents that state what I am stating. Citations have been provided by others.

 

As far as where a scout shop places patches, it all depends on several factors: space for display, restricted vs nonrestricted, inventory, etc. At the shop I worked at, the COR patches were behind the counter in a drawer with the council level patches. We also had the, first go around with supply Exploring; second go around Venturing insignia as we had no room on the floor forthose patches.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[click23 66]

Before the Boy Scout position patches changed to tan, they were green. The Scouting Coordinators(the previous title for chartered organization representatives) was light blue, just like all other District and Council committee people. But now they are tan so that argument could go either way.

 

After reading Article VIII, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Rules and Regulations(see Axmans first post) I just do not see how anyone can say that CORs are unit scouters.(This message has been edited by click23)

[BadenP 93]

Click

 

Ask yourself one simple question on who's charter does a COR register? Answer: the units charter. Is he on the council charter? Answer: NO. So putting two and two together the simple answer is he is part of the unit(s) charter that his organization sponsors, he is NOT on the council charter nor is he a member of the council executive committee, he only has the right to cast one vote at annual council board meeting.

 

NOW WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR SO MANY TO UNDERSTAND???

[SSScout 1615]

"The work is done by whoever shows up."

 

After reading the thread above, here is my observation/interpretation:

 

1) The COR is selected by the CO, thru the IH.

2) The COR serves as the representative of the charter organization to the Scout District AND the Scout Council. He/she must be a "member" of those ruling boards, otherwise she/he would not have a vote on them.

2A) This does not mean the COR is a member of the Executive Board, however that may be constituted. But they might. See the above slogan.

 

3) To see the effect of the attendance or absence of the COR at those meetings, I refer you to the drama of Chicago Area Council and Camp Owasippee (sp?), detailed in these pages, a few years ago.

 

4) The COR is not, strictly speaking, a "unit" leader. But they could wear other sleeve dots at other times. He/she would appear to be a CO leader, and as such, should be eager to be involved in the life of the CO and the Scout Units it sponsors. We all know of "hands off" COs; we all know the problems this creates and we all know that Scout Unit is richly blessed that has folks that sign their names to the Charter papers and then take their assumed and assigned roles seriously.

 

5) It matters not whether one wears a Scout uniform; but what one does for or against Scouting. "Show me what a man does with his hands that I might know his heart" (Amish slogan).

 

5) HOW do we get our CORs to take their roles seriously? I have no idea how many COs the NCAC has, but there are no fewer than 80 COs in my home District and there are 20 Districts in the NCAC. I know for a fact that my home COR is NEVER notified about any Council meetings, tho he is on the listserve. Only once a year? How is a person supposed to react?

 

6) If the Council is corporately made up of it's COs, and the CORs are the voting members of the Council, and only a handfull of CORs show up at any meeting (District or Council), what else can we expect but that the decisions made will be limited by the imagination (or avarice or ego or...) of those in attendance?

 

We always hope and pray that the Scout ideals held by the folks that do the jobs are the same as the Scout ideals we ourselves hold. Sometimes, they are not, sad to say, as witness many of the folks that write here seeking advice and sympathy for their particular problem. I would hope that we can encourage our CORs to "show up" and therefore do the work.