Scoutfish 16 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Okay, stupid question time. We know that artillery and cannons are not allowed. Can't say I blame BSA for that. With a big amount of "but it's not my fault, I'm gonna sue" parents and an over proliferation of "There is no such thing as accidents so I HAVE to sue" people in our world, it doesn't matter how careful you or I may be. What about potato guns? Is this a technical thing or just a basic thing? Technically, A potato gun used a potato, not an encased shell with powder. A potatoe accidentally dropped in a fire will not explode like a artillery shell. There is no black powder ( or whatever type is used now) involved. But on the basic level..it shoots out of a barrel with explosive force. Wether it's hair spray, WD-40 or whatever, it's a flammible substance that is pressureized and has a directional discharge. NO! I do not have any plans or thoughts at this time of using a potato gun. But in a year or two, I thought my son and I might make one at home. Just wondering if this would be an okay thing, a BAD thing, or a VERY, VERY BAD thing to do at a den/pack level. And by that I also mean is it allowed? Would a potato gun fall under a rifle or artillery catagory?(This message has been edited by scoutfish) Link to post Share on other sites
ghermanno 11 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I think you answered your own question: "But on the basic level..it shoots out of a barrel with explosive force. Wether it's hair spray, WD-40 or whatever, it's a flammible substance that is pressureized and has a directional discharge." If you want to build one with your son, do it. If you want to buid one with Scouts..... You will probably be on your own for any litigation. my $0.02 YiS, Rick Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Ditto the above comments. if anything have them build a catapult out of scout staves and lashings. It does several things. 1) meets the engineer requirement, 2) works on basic scoutcraft,i.e. knots and lashings 3) builds teamwork and small group morale 4) IT FUN!!!!!! We built catapults as part of JLT back in the day and had a waterballoon fight. IT WAS FUN! Link to post Share on other sites
boomerscout 35 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 these are fun. However, the vapor pressure chamber can let go if it has any kind of weak spot ===> plastic shrapnel. Also, I can visualize some Cub with his hand or face right over the barrel as someone else ignites the charge. So, this is just not for little kids Link to post Share on other sites
Knot Head 10 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Bad idea for cubs for sure. Lash a catapult with scouts and they will learn and have fun. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 potato guns (and pringle can/tennis ball cannons, etc) are a lot of fun, but I agree with everybody so far - this is not a good cub scout activity. Too many little fellows to keep track of, too many opportunities for something to go wrong, too many problems. This is a great thing to do with your kid on your own, provided you pay attention to safety. But not with other people's kids in a group setting. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
moxieman 11 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 The only time I've ever seen potato guns in the hands of scouts was at the 2001 Canadian National Jamboree. It was treated just like any other firing range with the same safety rules and with roped off areas. If you violated those rules, you were banned from the range. Everyone was trained/instructed in how to use the gun before they could use it. All guns were mounted on a partial swivel to prevent them from being pointed anywhere but down range. I can't picture it state-side. As others have stated, we have too many sue-happy people and lawyers willing to take on their cases. Link to post Share on other sites
Pint 23 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 On the subject of tennis ball cannons, this is a video of some UK Explorer Scouts ( 14-18 years old) firing some shoulder mounted tennis ball cannons. I was at one time thinking of running that as an activity, although after watching the video ive changed my mind somewhat. No one ( appears to ) get hurt or injured on the video below: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9442330 Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutfish 16 Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks everybody! I really do appreciate your answers. Like I said, I have no plans or intentions of doing that except at home. I was just curious about wether it would be okay at a pack or den meet. Personally, I wouldn't do it myself in the den/pack setting because as I stated...the way parents are these days, one would insist that HIS child spray the spray and probably over do it at that pernts insistance, then blame' sue me when it went bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 There is no explosive charge in a paintball gun. I'd stay away from potato guns. They are in fact even more dangerous and I have seen them explode a large amount of PVC shrapnel. I'll take my chances with a 1/4# charge of black powder in a brass cannon before I mess with a potato gun. They are 100 times safer. BSA policy on artillery is because they don't understand the situation with brass/iron cannons. Depending on various situations, the artillery piece is extremely safe. If not it's a disaster waiting to happen. In the Civil War hobby, a Venture Crew member may not get national certification for artillery crew operations, but you can put them on a horse with a few hundred grains of black powder in a revolver which has as chain fire potential and a 36" saber and have him run around amongst others at a full gallop. Go figure. Stosh Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutfish 16 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Stosh, around 16 years ago, I bout a pre ban SKS56. Kinda like an AK-47, but the barrel was maybe 3 " longer and no pistol grip. It was a semi-auto too. I guess it was a pre AK-47 or just the Chinese version. It shot 7.62X39 ammo. I bought two 30 rd clips to go with it too. Accurate to the metric version of a mile. Not that I could site that far. Anyway, myself and 2 friends bought oneat the same time. Came in the original packlaging with original acessories. All covered in grease. Came witha bayonet too. Kinda had a cross or plus shapre if you looked at it head on. Well, I bought that gun at Rose's department store. 3 months later another frind bought one also. He was mad though. Seems somebody at Rose's Corporate decided that the bayonets were just too dangerous. Somebody might get stabbed or get their eye poked out! So what did they do? The took the bayonets off, and kept selling the guns! Seriously? The bayonet? This is a freaking high powered semi automatic war rifle. ... I can outrun a bayonet, but not the bullet!(This message has been edited by scoutfish) Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Yah, as always, there's no issue with being "on your own" for insurance, litigation or all that, eh? Anybody who hauls out that old tripe is just not being honest with you. The issue is whether yeh can do the activity safely and whether it's age-appropriate for your scouts or venturers. I'm not sanguine about anything that has enough energy to launch a projectile. Seen plenty a lashed catapult that were very dangerous and really inappropriate for younger lads. Often more dangerous than havin' a venturing crew servicing a piece of field artillery, as Stosh describes. If it's got enough energy stored in it to launch a projectile, it's got enough energy to hurt a kid, and a lashed-together thing is more likely to fail. So be smart, eh? Read through the Sweet 16 safety checklist in your G2SS and think about whether yeh can make each point work for your kids and your adults and your unit, whether it's spud guns or catapults. I'd personally say yeh don't want to be usin' spud guns at a cub event. The lads are too small and the things are too finicky. Older scouts and venturers if anything. Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 A couple of summers ago I had the opportunity to visit the rifle museum in Cody WY. Just about every gun in the world is displayed there. I was going along admiring them until I came to an Australian Boy Scout rifle. It was a small .22 cal. rifle with a bayonet on it. Try and get that one past the BSA policy committee here in the States. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
boomerscout 35 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 spud guns are different from potato guns/cannons. A spud gun is a metal hand held toy gun popular in the late 50s/early 60s. You stuck the snout of the gun into a potato to load the gun with a pencil eraser sized piece of potato. As you pulled the trigger you really compressed the atmos. air chamber inside ===> the potato then came flying out -although not very fast nor very far. never heard of anyone getting hurt with these Link to post Share on other sites
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