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Hope this never makes it across the pond

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Ok....I hate getting into these kind of arguments, however when looking at the guideline you don't count the number of times a word is used, but phrase and content. Knives are referenced as a tool three times. The other two are in reference to other tools and as a generic rerefernce in the same sentence. Reguardless, this guideline was is quite obviouse in thar it considers knives to be as much a potential weapon, as a tool. Additionally, the Scouting release itself states that the guidelines in the UK have been updated three or four times over the years. I can't remember the exact number that they said.

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I think the main item of the topic was missed. As I read the publication, the carriage of knives in the UK is illeagal except under certain cercumstances. They are only trying to ensure that Scouts follow the law. We do the same here.


This is a non-topic.


My $0.02



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In the UK carrying some knives (e.g., a folding knife with a 3.5" blade)is presumptively illegal unless you have a good reason.


In the UK the carrying of other knves - an example being a standrad "Scout" pattern slipjoint knife, is presumptively legal - no explanation or reason required.


Within part of the UK, English Scouting is suggesting -- "advising" -- that a more restrictuve practice be followed -Scouts not to carry knives of any kind to/from Scouting activities.


This "dust up" across the seas is only important to the extent that it touches on the question of what Scouting is about doing here in the U.S. Should we be so mistrustful that we do not trust any Scouts with a common tool OR so focused on what some see as PC that we should ban that common tool? As most know, as many units and Councils have purported to totally ban all "sheath knives" or all "fixed-blade knives."


Do things drive behavior or do values drive behavior - or both or other?


Cherry pie?

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I believe almost anything can become a weapon with a little bit of creativity. We are back to just because a few idiots do the wrong thing everyone is going to be punished.


I have carried a pocket knife everyday since I earned my Eagle back in 1980. Today I would have been thrown out of school. The knife I currently carry has a large blade, small blade, can opener, screw driver/bottle opener, phillips had screwdriver, awl, toothpick and tweezers. It is the Scout version of the Victorinox Tinker. I seem to use it every day for something.


I am a firm believer that as Scouters we are here to teach Scouts to be responsible tool users. This include pocket knives, axes, cell phones, the internet, their own brains and anything else that is handy. When asked "What are Scouts prepared for?" BP replied "Any old thing."


They are best prepared if we teach them to use tools?


Doesn't make the most sense to keep several tools on their person at all times. A pocket knife certain works there.


Wouldn't a Scout who gets lost in the wooeds stand a far better chance if he had a knife of any kind on his person?

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Scouts without pocket knives? Interesting concept. How might a Scout cut rope when he needs to? Burn it with a magnifying glass, I guess. And I guess there wouldn't be any more carved neckerchief slides. Or Scouts earning their Totin' Chip. Or Scouts that would, oh I don't know, know how to use a knife properly?


No thanks!

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Talking about dangers, doesn't anyone realize how dangerous a rope is? Talking about a weapon! How many have died through the use of rope - and not just as a state sanctioned execution device, but simple strangulation as well. And what about rope burns! The idea of letting teenagers play with such a hazard is unconscionable! Clearly something needs to be done about this immediately!


And while were on the subject of dangers, how about Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO)? This dangerous substance is responsible for thousands of deaths every year, and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Shockingly, some Troops actually let Scouts touch this substance, and in apparent extreme cases, allow Scouts to drink it! Some Adult Leaders actually encourage consumption, especially on hot days! All this despite full knowledge that inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities, will cause death. Furthermore, exposure to solid DHMO can cause severe tissue damage and gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns!



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A few years ago the company I worked for came up with an expanded definition of banned "weapons" in the work place that included knives. Like many folks on this list I've been carrying a pocket knife since before I made double digits in the age column.


Anyway, I called HR for clarification and yes indeed they did mean all knives. I was going to have to leave my trusty pocket knife at home because they were also banned from company parking lots.


I made all the standard arguments about personal responsibility, et. al. to no avail. When I mentioned it was going to require us to remove all the knives from the company kitchen she got quiet.


We finally agreed that since my pocket knife had screwdriver attachments we could call it a tool and it would be ok.


So from that day forward I quit carrying a pocket knife and started carrying systems-administration-mechanical-connector-manipulator-and-soft-material-cleaving-tool.


As for fixed blade knives, I'd take my old bowie knife in a survival situation any day over anything I can carry in my pocket.

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dcsimmons: I love it. Alternative verbiage.


When I was in high school, I became the Stage Crew Chief. I became known for carrying a small tool kit on my belt: pliers, phillips screwdriver, flat screwdriver, small adjustable wrench. Pocket knife in my pocket. I got called out of class many times to assist in things AV around the school. The rest of the Stage Crew crew were often similarly equipped.

Not any more. Different times.


I have an army surplus (WW2) cook set. Even my son has mentioned how lethal the big fork and knife included appear. Dual possible purpose, huh?


Finger food appears more fashionable all the time, I quess.


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I think this situation is already here, we were at a fair and I saw a troop of boy scouts in uniform, many were wearing sheath knives or pocket knives on their belts were confronted by police and told to surrender them and that they could pick them up when they left the fair.

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Was this a Scout Fair?


If not, you might be talking about local and/or laws on carrying knives, and such laws are all over the lot. Not the fault of the BSA if such laws bar carrying sheath knives.


As an alternative, any property owner or possessor, such as a fair operator, can set any rules he/she/it desires, including banning open display of knives. Again, not comparable to English Scout Assoc. knife rules.

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