Training for the happy path

[fleetfootedfox 10]

I thought this worth spinning off a new thread...

 

Mister T. wrote:

Wow,

 

I read through this thread with interest to say the least. My son has had nearly the opposite experience in scouts as your son. I was his Webelos Den Leader and we visited two troops and camped with one of them. His best friend was in one of the troops, so that was the troop my son decided to join. I volunteered to be an Assistant Scoutmaster (ASM) and got the Scoutmaster Training (thinking that at least one leader will be trained!). The Scoutmaster was planning a major camping trip, to Philmont Scout Ranch, in New Mexico. Philmont requires boys to be 14 before they can go to, so my son and 2 other Scouts were not eligible. Since Philemont planning took nearly every Troop Meeting, my son and the other 2 were completely left out. I got permission from the Scoutmaster to train the younger scouts. I said "So they will be a like a new scout patrol?" I get a blank stare from the SM. Then he says, "We don't want the boys to be in 'cliques' so we don't separate the the troop into patrols". I move on and the 3 Scouts form a patrol anyway, the Wandering Wolverine Patrol, they invite a friend and the patrol grows. I try to get patrol badges, SM says, we don't do that. I buy the badges myself. I suggest that the new scout patrol goes camping once a month, so they can advance to First Class, and because camping is what Boy Scouts do. Another Blank Stare from the SM. This is unheard of. Tim being weird again. We camp anyway, I roped in another parent in so that we have 2 leaders with the 4 Wolverines. I plan summer camp. 4 Scouts go, the Wolverines, with me and the roped parent. No one else, not even the SM. We continue to camp and invite the whole troop, no takers. They don't like camping. Troop is off for the summer. Except for the Wolverines. First Troop meeting of the Fall is finally scheduled, except now they have a conflict. Troop meets on Monday and Monday Night Football is on. Troop Meeting is canceled. My son and 2 other Wolverines transfer to a troop that likes camping and I'm now helping a Scoutmaster that I can see eye to eye with. The Scouts who were ready to quit are now active and happy.

 

It's a big mistake to try to say that Boy Scouts should not camp.

 

Scouter760 replied:

 

Mister T., thanks for sharing. It seems like no matter how messed up a troop is there are always others out there that are worse. Of course, a troop with out patrols is arguably not a boy scout troop at all.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Sometimes when I try to do things the way the training recommends other supposedly trained leaders seem to have no clue what I am up to. The boy-led idea is a particularly hard sell. For some reason, the Scoutmaster training does not seem to adequately convey its importance.

 

I think part of the problem is that the training videos depict the perfect troop and the perfect kids and the perfect Scoutmaster, but when you get to the q&a part of the training all the leaders start asking about the problems they have. That's what they are there for, but the trainers often don't have answers for them.

 

In the software development world, we call this the "happy path". People write software without giving much thought to what could potentially break. They write requirements and do testing as if we live in a perfect world. Then when murphy's law kicks in, they are shocked.

 

That is the way the training is setup. They teach you the right way to do things if you happen to be in the ideal circumstances, but they don't teach you how to deal with all the problems that are guaranteed to come up in real life.

 

They don't teach how to deal with adults or boys who are hard to get along with. They don't teach you what to do if your troop is all younger boys or if your SM doesn't see a need for patrols or doesn't believe in having a boy-led troop. They don't teach you what to do when two of your den leaders have an affair or when the Cubmaster skips town with the popcorn money.

 

Wood Badge may touch on how to deal with conflict, but most people don't go to Wood Badge.

 

In addition to the training issue, there is an accountability issue. The Scoutmaster in Mister T's troop was able to do whatever he wanted and completely ignore the way troops have been run since B-P on. How was he able to do that without somebody at the district level noticing? Was he operating this way with their blessing? Is there something the UC or DC could do about it? I am betting they would never dream of interfering, but this sounds like an example where the higher ups should be getting involved.

[Stosh 3452]

The only problem with the situation which is describe is: The adult led, troop method produces results. It should, adults are leading it. Boy led programs stumble, miss events, are inefficient and take time to develop the leadership skills of boys. Adults already have these skills and can provide all the best for the boys.

 

I compete in my town with a well run, active adult led program and I have about 1/3rd the boys as they do. This year after Blue/Golds, I garnered 4 boys, they got 20. One of my Star ranked scouts transfered over to that troop this past week.

 

It's tough for boys to compete with adults, they'll lose every time. Just because one runs the program correctly doesn't mean they are going to be as successful in the areas that show. My boys struggle with the challenges of developing leadership, in an adult led program that is never an issue, they just do what they are told by the adults who are lining up big trips and doing all the leg-work.

 

I've been on both sides of the fence on this one and I'm sticking with my boy led program.

 

Stosh

[scoutldr 732]

Agree with Stosh. Providing "all the best for the boys" is not our mission. It's to train leaders.

[Mister T 10]

Right,

 

Boy Led and Patrol Method go hand in hand. This should be stressed in SM training. "A Troop without Patrols is arguably not a boy scout troop at all", I entirely agree. If no patrols, what is being led by the boys?

 

So how do we get to worthwile training that is not the "Happy Path"?

 

On the Bright Side, My son's new troop is going backpacking this weekend, 2 patrols, my son's patrol and a brand new scout patrol, the Scouts decided where they wanted to go. A real boy scout troop.

 

Tim

[Sparta Patrol 10]

I agree totaly about the patrol method. I am actually just a little too obsessed with my patrol GOOOOOOOOOOO SSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

***********We interrupt this thread for a minor hijack************

"I compete in my town with a well run, active adult led program and I have about 1/3rd the boys as they do...."

Stosh, I am not trying to put words into your mouth, just to understand your meaning:  are you suggesting that an adult run program is likely to produce a larger troop, and/or that a boy led program results in a smaller unit?

 

[Stosh 3452]

No, I'm saying the quality of adult leadership and their many years of organizational skills will produce a troop with a better activity program. The boys don't have the experience to compete with adults in providing a lot of activities and high quality activities. I put together a summer camp at an out-of-state camp for that troop when I was part of it. It ran smoothly and everything went on my schedule just like clockwork. My ASPL is putting together this year's summer camp trip and is struggling every step of the way. He does not have my organizational or leadership skill level yet. He's deep in the learning curve. When he comes out on the other end of this challenge he'll be a better organized leader for it. So we have a fantastic summer camp program organized by an adult vs. a very good camp organized by a boy who struggled to get it together. When the outsiders see this, the choice for their boy is simple, go with the adult leadership and forego the leadership training for their boys as long as they have fun.

 

The size of the troop isn't the problem. A well organized boy led program will be a larger troop than an adult led program Each boy is responsible for a patrol sized unit, where an adult can't handle more than 30-40 boys unless he is heavily supported by other leaders to help carry the load. Adult led feeds on the idea that the more boys you need, the more adult leaders one needs to make it go. This adult led troop has 3-4 times as many ASM's as I do. I have one program ASM that assists the patrols with programs and another that assists with advancement records. Otherwise the three of us are the only direct boy contact leaders in the troop. If I had 9 leaders all doing the work the boys are trying to do, my troop would be bigger and more competitive. I choose to be boy-led and in time we will grow. It's just going to take longer because of the boys' learning curve for leadership.

 

This is the same troop that I attended an Eagle COH for three boys at the same time, and when it came time to thank everyone, extensive thanks went to all the adult leaders individually for all their prodding, and pushing to help them get their Eagle. Thanks went to their parents for the same reason. Only one of the three candidates thanked the boys of the troop for their help. I noticed it, but the gal that wasn't into scouting made the same observation to me afterwards. Obviously there wasn't enough youth leadership in that troop worth thanking. I would have thought that someone of them would have thanked their PL or ASPL for some help and guidance along the way, but there wasn't word one said.

 

Stosh

[FScouter 24]

"Providing "all the best for the boys" is not our mission. It's to train leaders."

 

Training leaders is a part of Scouting, only a part, not even the biggest part. Our mission is to prepare boys make ethical choices for the rest of their lives.

[Stosh 3452]

Ethical choices? My boys are trained to be leaders that care about the welfare of others, ethics naturally flows from the process.

 

Stosh

[Knight 10]

Our troop will never be the biggest, certainly not best looking, but we keep on trying to let our boys run their troop.

 

Our boys won a "best booth" award in their district at a recent Scout Show.

 

Nobody in our troop expected to win anything.

 

Other troops and packs had plenty of big booths with lots of well-built, showy exhibits and games. Very good for the Packs - great parental involvement. But the troops - in theory - are boy-run.

 

What did our boys do? Well, they looked at the booth suggestions many weeks ago and decided they would do a "Boy Scout cooking demonstration." It turned out to be nothing very fancy at all - just the boys and their camp cooking gear frying hot dogs in a pan. They had the fire extinguisher there along with a demo of using a three pan method of cleaning. They had an hour-by-hour duty roster posted of who did what for the entire Scout Show. The role of we adult leaders? We could stop by for free samples from time to time.

 

Their sign consisted of a hand-written cardboard pizza box.

 

But the boys did everything. We adults did none of the planning (Ok - except for us vetoing them wanting to use bait squid as their food instead of hot dogs) nor anything else. This was their baby 100%. Other troops had plenty of professional stuff with adults helping out (one troop had a big Guitar Hero competition booth - I'm not sure what that has to do with Scouting), but our boys did it all by themselves. They stuck to the basics - Boy Scouts go camping and cook outdoors.

 

So when awards were being awarded, little did anyone expect to out little booth to win anything. But apparently, the judges saw what makes me so proud of our group - boys running their troop.

 

We'll never be the biggest or most organized troop. But we have have several good patrols in which the boys are finding their way to become leaders.

[Stosh 3452]

Well done Knight, or should I say "Well, not done" as long as you're one of the adults?

 

Stosh