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jshupe391

Too Much Enthusiasm???

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I am a SM for a troop. I have a SMA who is literally driving me crazy. He has a heart of gold or just really puts on a good show, one or the other. He just does things that just don't make sense.

For instance: I just went through the new 21st century Wood Badge (I had already gone through the original in 1998). One of my ticket items was to start a Venturing Crew. He knew this as we had discussed it before. I get an accidental email tnat the Venturing Crew was meeting for their start up. Checked it out, and this SMA has took it upon himself to start the Venturers himself. His rationale, I just seemed to have too many other things going on. Hey, my thoughts are, as long as we have one, Great! I'll overlook that.

Next situation, we had some boys get a little out of hand wrestling and it was witnessed by a Webelo parent that some sexual inuendos was done. I had a talk with the particular Scout in question about the seriousness of what his actions showed and gave him a written warning that if it ever happened again, there would have to be serious consequences. This SMA knew what I had done, had verbally agreed with what was done and all seemed well. The next week I get a call from the Counsel office wanting the write up. He had gone to them concerned that it was not taken care of? I talked to Counsel and explained the situation, showed them the write up and was told that I had done the correct thing and it was no longer a concern to them unless it happened again.

This time it envolves a Eagle project. His Son has been a member of out Troop since I became Scoutmaster. I have watched him and helped him climb the ranks to Life Scout and now he is working on his Eagle. I found out today that his Eagle Project had been approved. My signature nor the advancement Chairs signature was not anywhere on the paperwork. Instead, he had signed it along with his wife, who is the CC for the Venturing Crew. They decided it would be a good Father/Son deal to work it together. I try to not be someone who angers easy and when I approached him with this, I ended up just telling him that it did not matter I guess, just as long as the Scout Eagle'd out.

This is just a few of the shenanigans he has done. I now have at least two different groups of parents that have dropped out of the Troop due to other actions that deal with him. One has told me that if he ever leaves the troop to let her know and her Son would be back.

Just wanted thoughts from those who have the brains.

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Please explain what you mean by a written warning? In all my years as a scout and scouter I have never heard of this. I am unsure if this is something that only involves your troop or your council.

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Wow. You need to part ways with this guy. But, I bet he's one of those really "sticky" types.

 

Have you ever flat out asked him why he's always stealing your ideas, second guessing your judgement, and undermining your authourity and position? And, I mean flat out ask and not over the proverbial cup of coffee.

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In response to the written warning, our troop uses a 4 step process. The first offense (this is the one that is given after the incidents in reference have been done more that a couple of times) is a meeting between the SPL and the Scoutmaster and the young man. This is informal, asking for help in stopping the action, etc and when done, the Scout is warned that on the next offense he will be written up and a copy put on file. If the action occurs again, the Scout is given a written warning. This is given to the Scout and he is given the option of keeping it to himself or in sharing it with his parents. He is told that if the action persists, the next meeting will be between his parents, the Scout, the SPL and myself. If the action persist after that, the Scout may be removed from Scouting for either a couple of weeks or longer depending on the severity. This particular Scout had been warned more than once about wrestling with the guys (especially the younger ones) and had already gone through the first step.

As far as the man-to-man talk, yes it has been done. The story I get is that he is sorry, he did not mean to over step his bounds and will mend his ways. I have talked to my CC and he is at a loss too.

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(Whup...whup...WHUP..WHUP)

sound of a helicopter parent getting too close.

Your ASM sounds like he is over protecting his son and family. Did I read it right that the wife is now CC for the new crew? Does the son or family have a beef with the boy who was warned? If so maybe they went over your head because they want a different action.

We have some of those types in our group. Hard eggs to deal with. see thread on helicpter parents.

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Sounds like a ready-made solution for you both is at hand: Have them spin off completely and go with the crew. His son can finish Eagle there, and he's out of your hair.

 

Then you can start another crew that will actually stick around for longer than the year or two it'll take for theirs to collapse under his tight control.

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Oh, I guess I did not mention that he had 2 sons in my troop. And yes, he has a thing out for the family of the young man that was wrote up. Was it that obvious?

He has not done anything against the rules, nothing that I can go to the Council office on.... he is an expert at trying to make impressions on the higher ups in our Council by taking on all the roles that he can. Venturing Advisor, Assistant Scoutmaster, Commissioner, Friends of Scouting Assistant, Cubmaster (just resigned that one), Wood Badge Staff Member (got caught drinking at that event and the Council let him off with a NO TRAINING of Adult Leaders for 5 years but no effect or restrictions on the troop level), and probably some titles that I do not know about.

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Do yeh have an effective CC or COR for da troop?

 

Generally speakin', every unit needs an "elder statesman" with at least the moral authority to pull adult leaders or parents aside, so to speak. Sometimes that can be the SM, but it doesn't sound like it in your case. Sometimes it's a CC or COR or former SM.

 

If yeh have one of those, I'd let 'em know and let them do the job, at least to start. First shot is always friendly one-on-one. Second shot if da first one doesn't take is a couple of folks, and you should be in on it. Third shot gets formal.

 

I also like shortridge's notion, eh? Cut 'em loose to a proprietary, doomed-to-die crew and finish your ticket by startin' a new crew.

 

Beavah

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No, it is not that obvious unless you have delt with one of those. They are 'glory hounds'.... just in it for what they(or their family) will get. They come in and disrupt your units function sounding like they will do so much but end up doing very little except taking credit for what others do. Cross them and they will do all sorts of things behind your back (like going to council) while smiling at you. 

My best advice is watch your back (for the knife) and do as others suggested by letting him leave and fail on his own. Gloy hounds fall flat on their faces when they do not have other peoples work to claim. Soon enough othes in scouting will learn that he is unreliable. Just protect those they go after with documentation and the truth.

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There is a lot of what has been posted that seems a little odd to me.

Could be that I'm missing something?

 

jshupe391,

I know I might be totally wrong.

But it seems to me that you dislike this guy far more than you have said.

 

I know if I were a WB Troop Guide and a SM wanted to use starting a Crew as a Ticket item? I'd point out that this really wasn't acceptable as the Ticket is supposed to be position specific.

 

As far as starting a new unit?

No one person can just start a new unit.

There are a lot more people involved.

If this ASM had been talking to the Scouts in the Troop about it? I kinda think that if I were the SM, I'd know about it.

I can't help wondering where you were? And how come you didn't know what was going on?

If the Crew has started and the son is doing his Eagle as a Venturer? Then that's up to the boy.

No one has done anything wrong.

 

Maybe it's time that you and this guy had a face to face meeting to discuss the fact that the two of you just don't get along? Having the CC, COR and maybe a U/C might not be a bad idea?

The ideal answer as I see it would be for you to look after the Troop and leave him to look after the Crew.

You will of course need to find a new ticket item! (One that has to do with the Troop!)

Eamonn

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This is not enthusiasm...this is deliberate and rude. First of all, I agree, he is being discourteous and disloyal. Going to Council behind your back would have done it for me. There is no excuse for that. The ASM's serve at the pleasure of the SM...fire him. (His membership in the unit is up to the COR, however....just notify the COR that he is no longer acceptable to you as an ASM and lay out the reasons.)

 

Is the Eagle candidate applying for Eagle as a Boy Scout or as a Venturer? If it's the former, then his project is NOT approved, since it requires the SM and CC signature before it goes to District approval. If he's applying as a Venturer, then the Crew Advisor and CC sign and you don't get a vote. Like I said...that's discourteous to not let you know what's going on BEFORE he does it. And that's the reason I think that dual membership in Troop/Crew should not be allowed. It allows the scout to make end-runs around the SM for advancement purposes.

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Eagle is not a rank earned in Venturing.This would be earned in the troop.

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jshupe391,

 

Greetings!

 

If I can describe my current troop, so I can relate what I think the problem is, and a solution.

 

We have an excellent SM, a high school teacher as his second professional career, an Eagle Scout and an excellent role model.

 

All of our ASMs are good gents, most are Eagle Scouts, either very experienced with Scouts or just slightly; but we all have a mutual agenda; "try to plan what is best for the troop".

 

Our SM/ASMs agree on most every topic and situation, or can be persuaded a different venue may be more beneficial. We don't agree on everything and have had extremely rare small disappointments with each other. But for the most part, we SM and ASMs are in unison.

 

Further, we know our Scoutmaster cannot be everywhere, so often we make a "command decision" with the thought "what is best for the troop". Our ASMs have fairly good communications; we email or telephone the Scoutmaster and each other. Explaining, here was my decision at the time.

 

I think the problem with your unit may be lack of communications. Your ASM/ASMs are not dialoguing with you (the SM) on a regular basis. Which seems like you are surprised often when you arrive to a unit meeting and find out a decision has already been made.

 

Probably better communications, across the board, would lessen the amount of times the ASM surprises you (the SM) with his decisions. He/they (the ASM or plural ASMs) will probably continue to make decisions for the troop that you serve. Either you will complete agree, somewhat agree, or on occasion disagree with their decision. But as long as you are communicating, you wont be surprised and offended.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

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Correction I was wrong you can earn merit badges and Star to Eagle in Venture program.sorry

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I wish I had better wisdom in this, but I think the short of it is that it won't end until someone gets in his face and/or you get this guy away from you. Been there and done that. In fact I lost a troop to this guy. Looking back on it, the only resolution between us was separation.

 

Logically I'm with the Beavaher in that the elder statesmen needs to have a word with this guy and keep having words until something changes. He is who he is and you need a larger force to counter him.

 

There is another part of me that likes the suggestion of pushing him to take on the Venture Crew and getting out of your way. My experience with a couple these guys is that not much will change until you get this guy away from your program. If he is the kind of person I think he is, he will jump at the chance to raise himself into the bright lights. The Venture Crew will start well from his energy to prove himself, but not his great leadership. As his enthusiasm wanes, so will the Crew program, but these kind of folks are generally open to new leadership at that point.

 

Good luck with this because I know it can eat you up.

 

Don't let him take away loving this scouting stuff from you.

 

Barry

 

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