Unit to District Volunteer Transitions

[ThunderFox 13]

Vigil, I hear you!

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Thunderfox,

 

With respect, I fear that the relationships you have listed of National>Region>Council>District, etc. are not accurate. Life isn't quite that simple.

 

First of all, I truly dislike the term "chain of command" when it applies to Scouting. We aren't the military and we don't have commands. We have an organization structure and we have areas of responsibility. We have leaders and followers. We don't have commands.

 

But also, there is indeed a National President and a National Commissioner chosen by the National Nominating Committee and elected annually by the National meeting (which, by the way, happened two weeks ago.) The Chief Scout Executive is an employee of the National Council selected by a National ad hoc selection committee and ratified by the National Executive Board.

 

National Employees and Regional Employees are ultimately chosen by the Chief or by persons selected by the Chief.

 

Local Council Scout Executives are chosen by an ad hoc local council selection board appointed by the Council President. They choose the Scout Executive from a list provided by the Region. But the choice is made locally, not by National or by the Region.

 

The Regional President and Regional Commissioner are chosen by the Regional Nominating Committee and elected at the Regional meeting each year, which occurs at the National meeting. They are NOT chosen by the National officers.

 

The Council President and Council Commissioner, in similar manner, are chosen by a local council nominating committee appointed by the Council President. They are elected at the Council annual meeting. The local council is totally independent in the people that they choose for these officers. They are not chosen or ratified or in any way influenced by the National Council, or the Region or the Area. Each of the 300+ local councils is a totally independent corporation.

 

The District Chairman and District Commissioner are designated by the District nominating committee although there probably is some involvement by the local council.

 

The Unit Commissioner is NOT over the individual unit. The unit is independent. The Commissioner can provide help and guidance and support and counsel but there is no reporting relationship. The only real authority that the local council/district have is the ultimate authority. They can decline to recharter the unit. Everything else is pursuasion.

 

The same thing is true at the local council level. The only real authority that the National and Region and Area have is the ultimate authority. They can refuse to recharter the council. They can refuse to provide candidates to be the Scout Executive. But other than that, it's pursuasion, guidance and help.

[ThunderFox 13]

There is a chain of command, whether official or not, national refers to it as the hierarchy through the professionals as straight line from National Scout Executive to the District Executive and straight line for the executives (not Scout Execs) from the national president to the unit committee chair. Same lineage for program from the National Commissioner through the Commissioner Staff to the Unit Leader.

 

I did not indicate the Unit Commissioner is in charge of the Unit Leader. The Unit Commissioner is an emissary to the unit and not in charge at the unit level. "Chain of Command" is not my choice of words, I got if from repeated use by professionals and volunteers as an expediant (not truly accurate) description of the organizational chart.

 

The true chain of command is on the professional staff. But as the Key 3 is replicated at each level it forms an effective 3 column chain for professional, executive and program parts.

 

Lets not let nomenclature get in the way of the discussion.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, slow day. I wasn't really watchin' this thread.

 

Thunderfox, NeilLup's got da right of it, eh? There's no BSA chain of command, or top-down anything. We're a bottom-up organizational structure. Closest example is a NFP Association, which is da law we fall under in most states.

 

A district executive does report to a council Scout Executive, but a council Scout Executive reports to da council Executive Board who hired (and can fire) him. The council Executive Board reports to da council members (COs and at-large), not to the BSA.

 

That pattern, as you say, gets repeated at the national level, where national staff report to the CSE, the CSE reports to the national executive board who hired (and can fire) him, and the executive board reports to da national members (councils).

 

What you describe I know gets talked about sometimes among execs and in executive trainin', but it's incorrect. A Scout Executive owes his full faith and allegiance to his local council executive board, and anything other than a support or advisory role from executives at region/national would be an unethical conflict of interest. It's like a Chamber of Commerce, eh? A business executive might use resources and trainin' from the Chamber to help his business, but he doesn't report to da Chamber, he reports to his company's directors.

 

This is more important than nomenclature, eh? This is central to our organizational structure, our risk management, and our ethics/Timeless Values in our business operations.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Axeman 10]

A district executive does report to a council Scout Executive, but a council Scout Executive reports to da council Executive Board who hired (and can fire) him. The council Executive Board reports to da council members (COs and at-large), not to the BSA.

[ThunderFox 13]

(Council) Scout Executives do report to the Council Executive Board that hired them. But a (Council) Scout Executive is not autonomous so long as the Council Executive Board is happy with him or her.

A (Council) Scout Executive can be fired, reassigned or put on the promotion list by the Professional Scouter above him or her.

[Beavah 205]

A (Council) Scout Executive can be fired, reassigned or put on the promotion list by the Professional Scouter above him or her.

 

Nah. Not legally anyways. Councils are separately incorporated entities in the several states. The BSA has no legal way of firin' or reassignin' an SE over the objections of the council executive board.

 

More importantly, if da regional staff really assumed responsibility for da supervision and termination of council scout executives, that would jeopardize the BSA's risk management program. Any attorney worth his or her salt would use that as evidence that the BSA should be responsible for da acts of the SE and those he supervises. In da case of a serial molestation, that would blow through our insurance cover and jeopardize the national council and its properties.

 

As to "being put on the promotion list," that bit is sorta true, eh? But that puts an SE in an awful conflict of interest. An organization that should live by da Oath and Law and Timeless Values should do its utmost to avoid such ethical conflicts.

 

To bring this back around to da original posting, this really is an example of how we need to improve our trainin' and service-minded orientation at the district, council, and national levels, eh? Nobody who comes into a position at those levels who is thinkin' it's a "chain of command" that they're in charge of is ever goin' to do Scouting a lick of good. They're all member or customer service jobs, eh?

 

To do the job right, we don't "command", we serve.

 

Beavah

 

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Thunderfox,

 

With respect, I'm not sure that you're correct about what an Area or Regional Director can do within the Professional Service of the BSA.

 

It absolutely is true that the Region can put an SE on the promotion list. However, the SE does not need to accept any promotion that they do not want.

 

I am not certain that the Area or Regional Director can "fire" a SE as we would normally think of that. The BSA can withdraw the Commission of any person and then they are ineligible to serve as a professional Scouter in any position. However, I believe that if the Council Board says "We like our SE" and the SE says "I like it here and I want to stay" absent withdrawing the Commission, the Region has only pursuasive power.

 

Same thing with reassignment. If the SE and Council Board are happy with each other, I don't believe that the Area or Region can force the matter.

[fgoodwin 23]

As BSRT Commissioner, a former district training chair and former UC, I've never considered district jobs of a "higher order" or somehow superior to unit level positions.

 

Quite the contrary, I've always viewed every district position I've held as being of service to units and unit Scouters. And it certainly is not the case that CMs and SMs somehow "report to" a district commissioner. A DC and UCs are counselors to a unit, but have no say in how a unit is actually run or how the unit selects its leaders.

 

Just because BSA has an organizational hierarchy doesn't mean there are corresponding chains of command.

[VigilNavyCPO 10]

Dratted double post, second one is edited better.(This message has been edited by vigilnavycpo)

[VigilNavyCPO 10]

from first post by Beavah - "Da biggest error is that they all tend to want to do what they did as unit scouters - set up systems and be in charge."

 

fgoodwin wrote -"As BSRT Commissioner, a former district training chair and former UC, I've never considered district jobs of a "higher order" or somehow superior to unit level positions."

 

This is the rubbing point of the post. If you have good decent Scouters at District, the system can work. I wish I worked with you locally fgoodwin, THANK YOU for all you do for Scouting.

 

If you are stuck with Scouters on "power trips" or believe they have been elected for life, then you stay active at the unit level until your family and friends children are out of the unit. Then you leave the program and move on to the Masons or some other activity more fulfilling outside of Scouting.

 

In my current District they (the POWERS that be) are actually debating on when to switch the District to the new uniform. I pointed out to them that National's policy is "Once Official always Official" and that as a youth in the early 80's it took 5 years for the uniform switch to settle down. "Their" response is the District can make a rule as to which Uniform a Scout HAS to wear at District events. If they do this, you can bet that's the last time alot of troops will show at any District event. Power Trip indeed.

 

And yes, my youngest is 15, so I'll probably be active in Scouting for maybe 3 to 6 years (unless we move )