What does your ASPL actually do?

[Lisabob 13]

Other than stepping in for the SPL in the event of his absence, most ASPLs I have seen don't appear to do much at all. Is that typical? Not asking for the "book" answer per se - I'm more interested in hearing about what happens on the ground which may or may not be the same thing.

 

This is mostly a matter of curiosity and a wish to identify "best practices" out there.

 

 

[eagle77 60]

we split up our other POR leaders amongst the ASPL's, Chaplain Aid and Quartermaster are with one ASPL, the ASPL updates and makes sure that these other leaders are up to speed on what is coming up or what may be needed from them for a meeting or activity. We also use them to help out and work with any scout skill that a patrol leader may be having problems with. All of the ASPL's in our troop have either served as patrol leader or Instructor. (a requirement in our troop for being SPL or ASPL).

[Eagledad 2777]

We have two ASPLs and both are responsible for program. They alternate every other month to lead the planning and leadership of all the troop activities.

 

Barry

[Stosh 3452]

My SPL is responsible for supporting the PL's, the ASPL is responsible for supporting the Troop Officer Corps, i.e. Chaplain Aide, Scribe, QM, etc. The TOC forms a patrol at outings and the SPL bunks with them but remains responsive to the needs of the PL's.

 

Stosh

[asm 411 10]

Our ASPL's main job is to run the game portion of our meeting. He has other duties as well mostly as directed by the SPL.

I would like to see the ASPL managing the Scribe, QM, TG, Librarian... but currently we have bigger fish to fry.

 

Stosh - I am curious why you disassemble your patrols to form a TOC patrol for outings?

[EagleBeaver 10]

Our ASPL manages the chaplain aid, librarian, historian, bugler, OA rep, quartermaster, instructors, den chiefs. He gets reports from them every month or so about their progress and accomplishments - whether that is an email, phone call, or face-to-face talk. He asks them to do tasks for the troop that fall in their area and checks that they complete them.

 

Each troop meeting has a "program patrol" responsible for the program, as assigned at the PLC. That's usually the same patrol organizing the monthly campout.

[emb021 16]

"I am curious why you disassemble your patrols to form a TOC patrol for outings?"

 

I'm not Stosh, but I don't think that's what they do.

 

Most likely the members of their TOC don't stay in the patrols (which is usually the norm), but instead form what was used to called a "Leadership Corps", which operates as a separate patrol.

 

the normal operations is that the TOC should stay in their patrols, and at campouts the SPL & ASPL would eat with different patrols as a guest (you see this when Jamboree troops in which the 4 adult leaders and 4 youth leaders [sPL, ASPL, QM, Scribe] eat with different patrols as guest, 2 per patrol).

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

ems021 is correct. The TOC forms it's own "patrol" and is responsible for support (leadership) over their charges. This expands the leadership responsibilities. The TOC scribe works with the scribes of the patrols. The TOC QM works with the QM's of the patrols, etc. This way the patrol personnel take care of their patrol's concerns and are supported in their efforts by a troop level person of similar responsibility and are usually more experienced. A patrol scribe may move up to TOC scribe having shown he is capable of helping other scribes within the patrols. As an example, the patrols all work on advancement, the patrol scribe records the efforts and turns in a report to the TOC scribe who compiles all the reports and turns them into the advancement ASM to record in the computer. The TOC scribe then retains the records after the ASM is done with them. The patrol QM's work the same way. If a patrol is in need of equipment for an outing, they make their request to the TOC QM who reviews all the requests and metes out equipment fairly among the patrols and helps them acquire the necessary gear for the outing if there is a shortage. DC's are included in the TOC because many of their duties take them away from their patrol responsibilities to work with the dens and it would be unfair to short-change the patrols with getting ready for activities when their attendance is sometimes kinda spotty. The Chaplain's Aide works with each patrol and holds devotions on a troop-wide basis as needed. TOC Instructors work with patrol instructors teaching them how to teach. We find this setup quite beneficial because the experienced scouts are working with less-experienced scouts in their specific areas of POR. The patrols are then free to devote their time for patrol activities knowing they can get assistance from older scouts whenever they run into a snag. The ASPL plays a vital role in assisting any of these TOC members should they run into problems and organizes them for the TOC outings. Because they are the experienced leaders, they take less time organizing outings and thus are available for the patrols should they need help. The SPL devotes his efforts in assisting the PL's direct their patrol activities when requested.

 

Stosh

 

Stosh

[asm 411 10]

Thanks Stosh, that clears things up.

 

 

[Kudu 186]

Lisabob writes:

 

"Other than stepping in for the SPL in the event of his absence,..."

 

Yeah, and the wisdom of placing an appointed ASPL in charge of elected Patrol Leaders in the SPL's absence is highly questionable. The current middle-management ASPL theory (supervising appointed PORs) is just the latest evolution of a bad idea looking for a legitimate new purpose.

 

We used the ASPL position for the application of the Peter Principle: A face-saving place to which an incompetent Patrol Leader can be promoted once the Patrol and the SPL have agreed on his replacement.

 

Good ASPLs are a waste of talent. There is no reason why the SPL can't keep track of the Scouts he appoints. A good Patrol Leader can always act as SPL in his absence (or in small Troops that do not waste talent on an SPL position either).

 

Yours in the Old School,

 

Kudu

[MattR 2659]

In my troop Patrol leaders are only responsible for their patrols so troop meetings are organized by the SPL and ASPLs. That would be severe burnout on the part of the SPL if he didn't have help as every meeting is different. There's a main theme/skill/demo as well as a game. They will occasionally ask some of the older scouts in patrols to help with these things and that means keeping them in focus and getting things done. There's also communication and training. My mantra seems to be: "You're the leader and you have a lot of responsibility but you don't have to do all of it. Get people to help. That's leadership." The other one is: Everyone has a job (and this includes adults). So our ASPLs are busy.

 

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

We are a small troop, with about 20 registered. Our oldest scouts (in a Venture Patrol) are becoming less and less active, leaving us with 2 healthy patrols. For that number, there is hardly the need for an ASPL (In fact, if the PLs were more skilled and organized, there would not be the need for an SPL). We do fill positions like QM, Bugler, CA, and Scribe, and we have 2 Den Chiefs.

 

Truth is, only 3 of our scouts are First Class or Star, needing a POR (older Life scouts have all already met their 6 month POR requirement); these 3 are my best leaders now, so I would not want to waste their talents on what is in our situation, a meaningless position. Next year, we hope to recruit 10 more, but with most of the Venture Patrol aging out, I still see little need for an ASPL in a troop with only 3 patrols. Maybe in 2 years or so, we can add one, if we continue to grow as we have in the past, but that is too far out to truly plan around.

 

Don't think that I consider the ASPL position without merit. In a larger troop, there is great benefit to having someone in this position. I do (Kudu and others may appreciate this statement) consider the ASPL in a well run troop to be more of a "management" billet and less of a true "leadership" position. The ASPL, after all, manages the positions of CA, Scribe, Historian, Quartermaster. Each of these should be a part of a patrol, so the ASPL is not really their leader. Quite different in my book, to be honest.

[Kudu 186]

"In my troop Patrol leaders are only responsible for their patrols so troop meetings are organized by the SPL and ASPLs."

 

Yes, the Troop Method

 

The invention of "Leadership Development" moved SPL selection away from the PLC and replaced it with Troop-wide elections.

 

In the Patrol Method, the SPL reports to the PLC (the Patrol Leaders who selected him).

 

The Troop Method reverses that: The Patrol Leaders report to the SPL.

 

In the Patrol Method, the Handbook for Patrol Leaders is a 400 page adventure book.

 

In the Troop Method the Patrol Leader Handbook is a 130 page pamphlet featuring only 8 pages of practical outdoor adventure information (pages 73-81). The rest is mostly business manager filler such as Troop-level "Organizational Charts" (with a Scoutmaster-->SPL-->PL hierarchy, of course), Troop-level job descriptions, photographs of Troop-level POR patches, and tips on how to attend a Troop-level business meeting.

 

"That would be severe burnout on the part of the SPL if he didn't have help as every meeting is different. There's a main theme/skill/demo as well as a game...So our ASPLs are busy."

 

In the Patrol Method the main theme is selected by the PLC and the skill demo is produced by the "Program Patrol" of the week or month. Each Patrol takes its turn as Program Patrol and then "Service Patrol" (setting up the meeting room before the meeting, and cleaning up afterwards), thus avoiding burnout and keeping Scouting Patrol-based rather than Troop-based. See:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/troop/01_ingredients.htm

 

The Patrol Method keeps the best talent as Patrol Leaders rather than as ASPL Troop administrators.

 

Kudu

 

[MattR 2659]

Hi Kudu,

 

Interesting comments. With the PLs picking the SPL it sounds like a parliamentary system as opposed to a democracy. I guess it has its pros and cons. However, I would really like a book with 400 pages of ideas for having fun. That should be reprinted.

 

We used to have something more along the lines of what you're talking about. The patrol leaders picked weeks to plan and they were responsible for those weeks. From what I can tell that's the way it's described. The problem was that the PLs spent so much time organizing meetings they didn't have time to do anything else. Troop meetings were great but patrols were just collections of scouts. There was no cohesion. The PL had no time for his patrol. As often as we told them to delegate some of the planning it didn't work.

 

The problem as I see it is there aren't enough scouts taking on responsibility. Something like 10% of the troop was responsible for organizing events and it needs to be somewhere around 25%. I'm not talking about helping. Most of the scouts help. I'm talking about organizing something. They, like the adults, are time poor so I'm trying to get more scouts to help. We also ask every family to help in some way, too, but that's another story.

 

To spread the responsibility I said the PLs are responsible for their patrols and the SPL and ASPLs will ask other, older scouts to help organize troop level events. If you're star or above you're expected to help. The SPL and ASPLs are also responsible for training and mentoring all the other responsibility positions. The PLC still picks the calendar and maybe it should help pick other scouts to help organize troop level events. It may not be elegant and I appreciate your comments and what the PLC is supposed to do, but just like the adults, we can't depend on a small number of people doing most of the work. I was told the BSA needs to adapt to two things, time poor people and changing demographics. That's what I'm seeing.