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Beavah

No Older Boy Scouts?

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One of the reasons there is no clear cut path from Boy Scouts to Venturing is because inherently they are two separate programs. Boy Scouts build on Cub Scouts, I am not sure Venturing builds a lot on Boy Scouts. For Outdoor Crews there is a lot of Cross-over, but a 14 year old who has never been in scouting in a Religious Life, Arts and Hobbies, or Sports Crew will not be much different than a Crew Member who has been or is a Boy Scout.

 

Boy Scouts and Venturing are two programs and trying to tie the two together is a dis-service to them both. Leastwise that's my opinion, I could be wrong

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Barry,

Good observation. I don't think that we should kick out the 14 plus year olds as well. they are indeed an example to the younger guys and can be an inspiration to them. But I do think opprotunities should be provided for them, whether it's promoting COPE and HA opportunities at summer camp; jambos, Philmont, and other trips via the council or other troops that have spots open; to doing a few older scout activities without the rest of the troop; to planning something to go on concurrently with the rest of the troop on an outing.

 

I also think that clear resposnibilites, goals, and levels of performance should eb worked out withthe older scouts, SPL, and SM.

 

I also think that the older scouts should be part of the PLC, since they have expereince and are usually troop level leaders: quartmaster, instructor, etc.

 

But on the opposite end if a troop is not meeting the needs of the young man, then a venturing crew may. And he should be encouraged to continue on, especially since one of the things about venturing is supporting the other scouting programs.

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"One of the reasons there is no clear cut path from Boy Scouts to Venturing is because inherently they are two separate programs."

 

Well, yes, they are separate programs. But then, so is Cub Scouts. Boy Scouts do NOT build off Cub Scouts. They are separate and unique programs.

 

But if we work to move Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts (mainly thru the Webelos programs, and building ceremonies), why not from Boy Scouts to Venturing. After all, the posters for Venturing says its "Scoutings Next Step"...

 

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FWIW.

 

Eagle Scout has been around since 1911.

 

Quartermaster has been around since 1925 or so.

 

Venturing Silver has been around since 1998.

 

High awards of the past include:

 

Explorer Scout Ranger from 1944 to 1949

Explorer Silver from 1949 to 1959

Air Scout/Air Explorer Ace from 1942 to 1954

Air Explorer Silver from 1955 to 1964

Explorer Achievement Award from 1981 to 1995

Explorer G.O.L.D. Award from 1995 to 1998

 

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To earn the Arrow of Light, what does a Cub Scout have to do?

Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

Show your knowledge of the requirements to become a Boy Scout by doing all of these: Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath or Promise and the 12 points of the Scout Law. Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life.

Give and explain the Scout motto, slogan, sign, salute, and handshake.

Understand the significance of the First Class Scout badge. Know its parts and tell what each stands for.

Tell how a Boy Scout uniform is different from a Webelos Scout uniform.

Tie the joining knot (square knot).

Earn five more activity badges in addition to the three you already earned for the Webelos badge. These must include:

Fitness (already earned for the Webelos badge)

Citizen (already earned for the Webelos badge)

Readyman

Outdoorsman

At least one from the Mental Skills Group

At least one from the Technology Group

One more of your choice

See page 74 in the Webelos Handbook for the activity badge groups.

With your Webelos den, visit at least one Boy Scout troop meeting and one Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity. (If you have already done this when you earned your Outdoorsman activity badge, you may not use the same outing to fulfill requirements for your Arrow of Light Award.)

Participate in a Webelos overnight campout or day hike. (If you have already done this when you earned your Outdoorsman activity badge, you may not use the same outing to fulfill your Arrow of Light Award requirements.)

After you have completed all five of the above requirements, and after a talk with your Webelos den leader, arrange to visit, with your parent or guardian, a meeting of a Boy Scout troop you think you might like to join. Have a conference with the Scoutmaster.

Complete the Honesty Character Connection.

a. Know: Say the Cub Scout Promise to your family. Discuss these questions with them: What is a promise? What does it mean to keep your word? What does it mean to be trustworthy? What does honesty mean?

b. Commit: Discuss these questions with your family. Why is a promise important? Why is it important for people to trust you when you give your word? When might it be difficult to be truthful? List examples.

c. Practice: Discuss with a family member why it is important to be trustworthy and honest. How can you do your best to be honest even when it is difficult?

I think the Cub Scout program very much ties to Boy Scouts, to get the highest Cub Award you study Boy Scouting, to get the Boy Scout highest award, you do not study Venturing. Now, if that were to change...

 

 

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BW writes "It is a vaild statement that some do misrepresent what the Eagle rank signifies. It is a terrific personal accomplishment worthy of recognition. "

 

 

Irrespective of the place of Eagle rank in the grand scheme of the BSA, it is THE BRAND that is known by the public. The achievement "Eagle Scout" should tell the public something about an individual. Yes we continue to teach boys to make moral and ethical decisions and all that, regardless of rank - but I'm talking about our public image as an organization.

 

Would an HR director know what a Venturing Silver Award is? Probably not. Do they know what Eagle Scout means? Absolutely. And if it doesn't hold the weight it once did, it is because we are failing to preserve its exclusivity as a brand.

 

Venturing is fine as a coed opportunity for high adventure and other interests, but positioning it as "the next step" without some extensive and successful marketing will kill scouting. Quite frankly, I don't think the BSA has the fortitude to pull that off - it requires too much risk.

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Just as many people know the term Tenderfoot as they do Eagle Scout.

 

The BSA is losing its Brand Exclusivity??? To Whom? Some one else is using Boy Scout? Eagle Scout?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Replacing Eagle as the top award would definitely kill scouting as it loses brand name and also older Eagle would get very upset with the changes. they might not support the program. It would definately be a PR nightmare.

 

Please do not get me wrong,I understand the value of the Quatermaster, Silver, and Ranger Awards, and highly encourage Venturers to go for them. I also put the awards on par with Eagle Scout, not above it, and not below it. However If I have earned those awards, i would wear the knots and/or medals in this order: Eagle, Quartermaster, Silver, Ranger, since that is their order of precedecne based upon how long the award has been offered.

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BW, I think you're using the word "exclusive" in the sense of a sole provider when my argument would define it as superior and/or desirable. But I suspect you knew that.

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Actually I am using it in the field of marketing. Brand Exclusivity is a marketing term that refers to a company, a product, or a product line, creating an concept of uniqueness within a market category. Something that the BSA has done a very good job of in the area of charater development.

 

How were you using it?

 

 

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Emb said,

 

Explorer Achievement Award from 1981 to 1995

 

 

Your are correct and I forgot about that one. But I will say that the folks I talked to about what challenges Exploring had to offer did not mention that award. The post adviser I talked to said there was nothing, and the national scout shop manager said only Sea Explorers had anything, and it was Quartermaster. I believe that since emphasis on exploring was career oriented these awards were not advertised or really made known, at least in my council. Exploring was a neglected program in New Orleans until they hired an Exploring exec. This was after I aged out.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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"I think the Cub Scout program very much ties to Boy Scouts, to get the highest Cub Award you study Boy Scouting, to get the Boy Scout highest award, you do not study Venturing. Now, if that were to change..."

 

The Cub Scout program doesn't have such ties.

 

Its not the aim of Tiger Cubs, Wolf Cubs, or Bear Cubs to necessarily become Boy Scouts.

 

Webelos is a more recently addition to Cub Scouts that WAS created to bridge the gap and prepare Cub Scouts for Boy Scouts. In fact, in the time I was involved in Webelos, its become more of a bridge program then it used to be, what with Webelos allowed to wear the Boy Scout tan uniform, use patrol medallions, etc.

 

 

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I would agree that you do study Boy Scouting in Webelos as far as for Arrow of Light you nee to know the Scout salute, the handshke, the parts of the badge, the menaing of the Oath and Law. But that is true of when you join Cub Scouts to. For Bobcat you study the basic elements of Cub Scouting.

 

I would strongly diagree that for the Boy Scout highest rank you study Boy Scouting. That simply is not true. You study a lot of different things; leadership, sciences, citizenship, woods tools, a whole host of things that people outside of scouting study also.

 

You could change the age limits however you want, it won't alter the ability of the leader to deliver a good program or to know how to develop young people. A mediocre scout leader to 14 year olds is not going to suddenly become a good leader to 15 year olds.

 

If the unit you are in cannot retain older scouts your problem is your unit program and not what label you call the scouts by, or what uniform they wear. And your unit program quality is determined by the unit leader.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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As I am easily confused, what are you talking about bob when you say:

 

"I would strongly diagree that for the Boy Scout highest rank you study Boy Scouting." ?

 

What are you talking about?

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