When Is It Proper to Physically Stirke Another?

[packsaddle 753]

Have you seen the 1971 movie starring Donald Sutherland, "Johnny Got His Gun"? Based on the 1938 novel by same name?

 

Edited for clarity and spelling.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Frank17 10]

Only when you have the other person's consent, as in a sporting event: Steelers vs. Titans this weekend!

 

Other than that: NEVER! The "fighting words" doctrine is dead in most states.

[jr56 92]

Anyone striking anyone, for any reason would probably be instantly thrown out of scouting.

[Liz 101]

OGE, I think I've just found my movie soulmate. =)

 

-Liz

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Liz, I know something you don't know...

[Kudu 186]

OGE writes:

 

"I started this thread because Kudu made refrence in the parent thread..."

 

I did not comment because the title of this thread at best suggests that we can establish guidelines for that kind of thing.

 

The things I look for in a Patrol Leader or SPL include:

 

1) Above average IQ,

2) adult-level verbal skills,

3) a love of outdoor skills that places Scouting at a higher priority than sports, employment, and other outside interests,

4) an internalization of Scout Law expressed in his actions, especially when nobody is looking, and

5) a bearing that discourages intimidation by other Scouts when adults are not present.

 

When such rare leaders emerge I welcome them into the circle of adult leaders where they assume an informal role as a sort of senior assistant Scoutmaster, given that they are the equal of many adult volunteers except for experience and judgement.

 

This SPL was such a leader: A 17 year-old Eagle Scout who had earned a scholarship to the Air Force Academy. My favorite memory of him was his reaction when he learned that one of the new sixth-grade Scouts was nicknamed "Spartacus." He told them the story of a slave by the same name who led an escape of 70 followers from gladiator school to a hideout on Mount Vesuvius, and eventually became the leader of an army of 100,000 escaped slaves in armed revolt against the Roman empire, killing the soldiers that defended the aristocrats who owned them.

 

It is #5 that some readers find controversial because the invention of Leadership Development in 1972 required the dumming down of the Boy Scout program to Webelos III camping so that adults could teach Wood Badge theory to a new crop of "Junior Leaders" every six months. This rapid turnover of popularity contest winners required closer cub-style supervision than when Scouting was the most popular youth program in the United States, and the subsequent cancellation of Green Bar Bill's crown jewel, Patrol Leader Training, which had the single goal of teaching Patrol Leaders how to lead Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights without adult supervision.

 

Unsupervised Patrol Hikes and Patrol Campouts are still allowed, but I don't see how you can accomplish that without the "hooligans" that Baden-Powell said make the best Patrol Leaders. It is precisely these street-savy boys who are no stranger to detention that always made the best Patrol Leaders in my old community. They had the bearing to hold things together in a Patrol of rough boys when adults were not around.

 

In ten years only two punches were actually thrown by Patrol Leaders. The second was by another 17 year-old Eagle Scout, a high school football hero who returned a sixth-grader's sucker punch to the face with a hard punch to his arm. I did step in on that one because it was likely to happen again.

 

After a number of incidents the sixth-grader was suspended and to my regret he never returned. He was the kind of bad boy who might have made a good Scout someday. He had an uncanny resemblance to Tom Felton and unfortunately to his character Draco Malfoy. He was small for his age and prone to anger and rebellion, but between violent outbursts he could be quite cheerful. As we paddled in a light drizzle on one autumn canoe trip, his remarkable soprano voice rang out over the still water as he sung Scout songs a cappella in the rain.

 

Kudu

 

 

[Liz 101]

OGE -- I am not left handed!

[packsaddle 753]

Liz, so do I.

[packsaddle 753]

Kudu, back when I was a scout my troop had about 25 boys and there was a fist fight about every third week. Never involved an adult but it came close on one occasion (involved a leader from another troop). Only a few involved me (I had most of my fights on the school bus). But fighting was wrong back then as it is now. The difference to me today is that back then, almost none of us had access to a pistol. And a knife was just too up close and personal, and risky. Today guns are just incredibly available.

Besides, if a person's intent is to hurt another, words can go far deeper and be far longer lasting. It just takes a little skill...as well as the intent.

[Kudu 186]

packsaddle writes:

 

"But fighting was wrong back then as it is now."

 

Fighting is far less likely when top dog is Patrol Leader.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Yeah Pack, Might makes right, every scout knows that

[Kudu 186]

Might defends rights when it is in harmony with the other four qualities of a good Patrol Leader.

 

It is called "deterrence."

 

Every Boy Scout should know that.

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Well, sure when you explain it like that

[ScoutMomSD 10]

I have been lurking a while and was determined not to get into the psycho drama of this site anymore but I read this thread and as politely as I can will say you are all nuts.

 

I am amazed that I am finding more and more that Beavah is the voice of moderation.

 

If you strike a child or teen and they call the Dept of Social services, they will probably arrive quickly and possibly take your child away.

 

this is not the 1940's or 50s' - thank goodness. When men were men and women were on valium.

 

the "good old days" were not so good. Not good for women and in many instances, not good for kids. A lot of closet abuse then. Not as much divorce because women had no other choices but to stay in horrid or abusive marriages. "good old days?" - no.

 

I am really glad I live on one of the "blue coasts"