What is the most dated scouting skill requirement?

[SctDad 10]

What is wrong with the boys learning a game of the time past. Marbles is something that they can play anywhere. Take a bag of marbles with you camping. Have a mini-tournament while on a camping trip. Easy Activity

 

I think scouting needs to keep some of the skills that we did use in the past. Why not teach the art of signalling. Make it a challange and den/patrol competition. some of these things that we pass off as OUTDATED can be made into great games.

[Gold Winger 9]

True story. I wasn't a Scout but I did take celestial navigation in college. Couldn't tell right ascention from my azimuth today but one night back in school, I was on a date and we were cruising around late at night in the farmlands of Indiana. Just a long drive, chatting. About 1 AM I decide to head back home but don't know quite where I am. Know that I'm north of cmapus but which way is South.

 

I stopped the car and got out, fortunately it was a clear night and I spotted the Big Dipper, found Polaris and oriented myself and headed for the barn. Impressed the heck out of the girl.

 

An irrelevant skill that saved my bacon AND impressed a date. That's a twofer.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I vote for lashing as archaic.

 

Knots are OK, provided that they're useful knots for a lad to learn in his unit. Taut line is a silly knot when yeh can use the trucker's hitch. Troops that do a lot of climbin' might use the climbing knots (figure 8 follow through, water knot, etc.) but never use a bowline. Sea Scouts might use a bowline but never a figure 8 on a bight. Perhaps the goal should be to learn and demonstrate 3 knots your unit uses regularly.

 

Patrol flags might be archaic. I don't know very many troops at all that do the flag thing for real anymore. Patrol yells might even fall into that category.

 

I reckon we need to make fires optional, eh? Just too many places in da country where open fires aren't possible. Sad to say, I'd put wood tools there, too, eh? Too few places they're useful on scout trips.

 

I like da swim requirements. Not archaic at all. But line rescues are archaic and dangerous and should be dropped.

 

Da "three things you should avoid doing related to the internet" I suppose isn't archaic, just goofy. Only three?

 

Bugling MB's time I think is gone. Probably some others. Dog Care can be merged into Pets. Not sure we really need Basketry. In their place, it would be nice for us northerners to be allowed more than one badge for "Snow Sports", eh? Cross country skiing, downhill skiing, snowboarding, ice boating, snowshoeing, sledding, etc. are more different than Rowing and Canoeing, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger 9]

Lashings are great, you can actually make things out of sticks. Like signalling, it is a great feeling when you build something.

 

Line rescues are dangerous? Reach, throw, row, go. Basic lifesaving, thow a line.

 

Patrol yells help build team spirit. Patrol flags, if they aren't used maybe you should encourage them.

 

Merit badges aren't required. If you want a skiing merit badge, design one. Basketry may not be needed but then neither is snow sports. Merit badges are kept based on popularity.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[John-in-KC 311]

I'm going to go the opposite direction. The most under-represented skill in Scouting is Cooking. It's pro-forma in T-2-1. Cooking MB is not now, and has not been, Eagle Required for many years.

 

It's an essential guy skill in this modern age. I can manage sodium and fat intake far easier when I do ingredient cooking over when I open a package, nuke, and eat.

[Gold Winger 9]

If you want to get right down to it, traditional Scouting is outdated and irrelvant.

 

Camping? Why camp when you can stay in a hotel?

 

Hiking? You can see pictures of everything on the internet.

 

Knots? Don't need them.

 

Swimming? Way too dangerous.

 

Fires? Got a stove at the comfort suites hotel.

 

Cooking? That's why there are restaurants and carry-out places.

 

Self-reliance? No way, when things go wrong that when you call for the authorities.

 

Leadership training? No, what we need is MBA style management with a focus on rewards for the management and punisment for the rank and file.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I see the scouting requirments some are seeing as archaic in the same light I see the value of a Liberal Arts education. Learning knots, compass work, how to identify plants and trees, etc. teaches youth how to learn. Knots seem so hard and impossible but with practice, the rope begins to obey the fingers and the strands lay correctly and voila, a bowline, a tautline hitch. Its a challenge and one that its accomplishment is measureable, He couldnt do it before, but now he knows he can.

 

Overall relevance of scouting skills is dependent on the Troop program. If the scout doesnt need the skill of knot tieing, well, he won't retain the skill. If he has opportunity, he will do fine

[raisinemright 13]

Marbles is great as a time filler or for the backup plan. A few years ago at Cub day camp, a massive rainstorm came in and washed out camp for the day. We had about 50-70 kids in one of the cabins waiting out the storm. The camp staff hadn't had any backups so boredom was beginning to set in. I found a box of marbles and a roll of tape and set up several marble rings. The boys had a lot of fun and a bunch of them earned their unexpected belt loop that day.

[Lem 10]

It seems to me that if you just imagine trying to get a group of boys from point A to point B on a map the skills and equipment efficacy become more straightforward. Without the high tech gadgets like GPS, cell phones, and emergency beacons, what is useful to have in the individual scout brain? Survival skills are taught by militaries all over the globe- why- because they would be the most likely to find themselves in a dangerous situation.

 

If your scouts learned shooting forward and back azimuths, learned the grid north, the magnetic north, and the declination for the true north, and could read a topographical map, they would be well suited to save they hide of a group of scouts who couldn't do these things and were lost save for those skills. Last time I checked, without warm weather gear and if people are under clothed or worse- wet- then a fire may be the difference between life and death.

 

These are the skills that make the boy into the potential hero. Isn't the scout supposed to be the helpful if not heroic boy?

 

Isnt he supposed to be trained to actually be prepared for peril and difficulty?

 

I think if the focus were more on training the hero then there would be less confusion and hand wringing about the skills as abstract and irrelevant antiques.

 

Basic signaling (semaphore) can be done over long distances. A long distance method of communicating can be super helpful for a group of scouts moving through terrain.

 

Basic rope techniques for climbing- rappelling, and crossing gorges and streams is another amazing skill.

 

Perhaps the first aide skill could be the center piece for scouting because of the immediate practical application and the fact that =scouts could go on to get qualified later in EMT work if they wished.

 

What are the core competencies of scouts?

 

What should inform the core competencies?

 

If there is no focus on the boy as the hero and the resourceful helper- then silliness and irrelevancy are going to creep in.

 

BSA suffers from intense mission creep- and this is where the malaise comes from.

 

Jeff

(This message has been edited by Lem)

[shortridge 184]

Marbles bring back many fond memories of Cubs. My den leader had an old carpet, worn pretty flat, that she let us draw chalk circles on (she was extremely tolerant) and was PERFECT for shooting marbles. We spent many a "pre-meeting activity" on our knees in her living room.

 

Nowadays, however, I find that my thumbs and fingers get really painful, really quick, if I try to shoot some. I'm not sure if they've aged faster than the rest of me, or if I was just a lot tougher at age 8.

[Gunny2862 11]

I can't see anything mentioned above as outdated.

 

I am personally happy that the FCC nor Scouting require Morse code for their basic requirements - if either brought it back I guess I'd have to relearn Morse - it's great in the HF spectrum but very few people use it anymore preferring to use the more practical radio to radio or repeater systems where available. Formerly KE4HNV - my amateur license has lapsed and Scouting's occupying my time and my money.

 

GPS units get wet and die, they fall on rocks and break. I've yet to break a compass(that is, not a compass that wasn't a dimestore job). Map and Compass skills are vital!

 

Map and compass work are essential for any one who lives anywhere where one can get far enough away from help that traveling in a straight line in the right direction could be the difference between life an death - and if hypothermic with bad enough weather that distance can be pretty short.(although stopping and building a fire and putting up a warming tent or even lashing(hmm, at least knots but possibly lashings) a little reflecting screen or overhead cover might be a great idea - depending on the situation and distances involved)

 

Knots help in every day life, frankly Scouting's Required knots are pretty easy, and teach more than knot tying.

 

I don't know signaling, might like to learn, but would want to have someone else who could read it to signal to - can't require the Scouts to join me.

 

Swimming, if the Troop does water activities, if the Scout is to be prepared for some basic life skills, I think swimming is indispensable. I've never yet met anyone who was physically able who couldn't be taught to swim. Now, even the military does wash out adults who can't swim to their specification and who can't learn in a relatively compressed timeframe(usually ten days or less, the first two of which are usually lost beating it into the prospect that they CAN'T swim. But I personally believe that anyone who WANTS to and is given a month - and competent coaching can learn to swim to better than BSA standards.

 

Cooking and cleaning up, no safety net for dinner. They learn to cook pretty fast when you hide the emergency oatmeal and outlaw bringing individual food.

[gcnphkr 11]

Camping--It is dirty, uncomfortable and boring.

 

Cooking--Anything beyond using a microwave and boiling water is just showing off.

 

Knots--Velcro, bungees and tie-downs all work fine.

 

Fires--What's the big deal? All you do is light the ends of the wrapper.

 

Hiking--All the things with camping, plus sweaty and blisters!

 

Flag Etiquette--Patriotism is old fashioned, we are the world.

 

Patrol Knowledge--Stupid flags and yells. They make us look like dorks. Beside we do everything as a troop.

 

Physical Fitness--Exercise! Enough said.

 

Map and Compass--All I need is my GPS to get to the campground with showers and flush toilets.

 

First Aid--That is what first responders are for. When was the last time you had to splint something, give CPR or stop a bad cut from bleeding. Boys don't even use axes, saws, hatchets or knives since they don't need firewood or to cut up meat or vegetables.

 

Lashings--Useless. I don't need a tripod to hold an cook pot over a stove and I don't need to build a litter because I'll just push a button on my radio and a 'copter will be out in a little while to pick us up.

 

Plant and Animal Identification--You don't eat it, cook with it or build with it so who cares? Tree, bush and bird is find. Besides, you don't see anything more exotic than a squirrel anyway.

 

Swimming--Those with pools can, those without pools don't need to. Lakes are too cold to swim in and I'll never be on a boat without a PFD.

 

So why do we learn all these skills? Because we are Boy Scouts! If we didn't want to camp, hike, climb, get dirty, jump in a lake, burn our food and fingers and be proud of our country and patrol then we would have joined some candy-ass after school program and glued pasta on construction paper, that's why!

[Eagle92 110]

Someone said something about First Aid. I think it should be required for First Class. In two experiences as a youth, when something happened and people discovered I was a Scout, they expected me to know first aid and take over. Luckily I did and everything worked out OK.

 

I do not think ANY of scouting's skills are archaic. Far from it they teach independence, self reliance, team work, and leadership. I've used those wilderness survival skills I've learned, and not just to get the MB. I've used the first aid skills. I've built fire in the rain and had someone light the sucker in the rain with one match. If the program is properly run, youth want to do these "archaic" things and have fun. There are youth out there who do not like Xboxes and what not. they rather DO something.

[asm 411 10]

I don't remember where I read it but it may have been in "Two Lives of a Hero" B-P said something about never expecting a Scout to have to find his way in an emergency using orienteering. The purpose of that particular game was to teach Scouts the importance of using tools correctly and precisely.

 

I believe that learning how to tie knots and lashings, swimming, cooking, first aid...has nothing to do with the actual skill itself. Several are definitely good skills to have no doubt. I think it has to do with opening a boys mind to the things that can happen.

 

When a patrol creates a pioneering tower that they can stand on and look out from has nothing to do with earning pioneering MB or a life skill in itself. I would not expect a Scout to go about lashing things together in his daily life. It has to do with having fun, building confidence and learning the possibilities of what can be done with minimal resources and tools.

 

Take those same boys and set them loose in their occupation of choice and they will not be limited to the latest technologies to get the job done. They will have their minds open to not only use the past and present but be looking for new ways.

 

Why do Scouts learn the skills they do? To have fun and prepare them for any old thing.(This message has been edited by asm 411)

[SctDad 10]

I look at things like this.

 

GPS Batteries Die

 

Emergency Beacons can Still fail.

 

They are all nice, but what is your back up.

 

(Yes I even agree that the military is getting to tech dependant)

 

Mountains usually look the same, and magnetic north doesn't shift, and wood still burns.

 

Water filters are only good if you have them. Where do you get water from when there is no flowing water around.

 

My theory on scouting is this, Disconnect and get out of the house.

 

I look foward to the day that I can go out and take my kids to a wilderness survival training day.

 

Lets all promise to put the OUTING IN SCOUTING. (No not my words)