Controversial ASM appointment

[Lisabob 13]

The obligations of a unit toward youth are quite different than toward adults. There is a world of difference in terms of responsibilities and expectations between being a youth member and an adult leader. Developmentally speaking, 18th birthday is a very arbitrary cut-off between youth/adult, but it is none the less the BSA's cut-off for boy scouting, and so everyone involved should consider the differences here.

 

When taking on an adult leader the most important question should be "can this person do this job?" If the answer is no then they should not be selected, plain and simple, no matter what the back story.

 

If the answer is "maybe" then perhaps a trial run in a supporting role is a way to find out without causing harm to the youth members (or hopefully, to this new "adult" either). Just because he's registered as an ASM does not mean he needs to be taking the lead in working directly with the boys with no conditions. Give him small tasks to do that are more behind the scenes and see how that goes. As others have said, a clear set of behavioral expectations and an emphasis on training are important too. In this case I would expect to include the SM and the young man's mother in this conversation too, given that you sound like you want to keep them on as active supporters of the troop.

 

Even with young men who have no disability, the transition from "scout" to "adult" is really challenging a lot of the time. Let's face it, most of the time the boys do not see the way the adults work to support a troop. What the boys see is that adults show up, transport them to/from events, go camping and look like they're having fun too, without an annoying PL to tell them what to do. Maybe also that adults are good at saying "no" and exercising authority (especially in more adult-led troops, which I think isn't uncommon). So hey, being an adult leader looks easy. Do the fun stuff, tell the "little kids" what to do and expect to be obeyed, and kick back, right?

 

It can come as a rude shock to new 18 year old ASMs that the reality of adulthood is a good bit more complicated than that. Maybe if you have another adult "mentor" for your new ASMs (all of them, not just this fellow), that could help ease the transition for him and for others in the future.

 

 

[NeilLup 13]

I have seen several 18 and 19 year old ASMs. Some were successful and some were not.

 

Those that were not seemed to regard their job as being some kind of "super SPL." They wanted to be out in front of the Scouts, lead things, etc.

 

Those that were understood that their job as young ASMs is to mentor younger youth, help them, give them knowledge, etc.

 

Another possible function for the young ASM is to have responsibility for some very specific function. Being responsible for physical equipment -- serving, if you will, as a "super Quartermaster." Or alternately, serving as a "super Instructor" taking responsibility for the physical skills in some key area like cooking or camp preparation and setup.

 

But it is very key that the young ASM needs to know very clearly that they are NOT the SPL, not the PLs, not a member of the PLC and is comfortable with that. It can be a very difficult role for some youth particularly in the Troop where they have been Scouts. It can be easier if he goes to a new unit.

[Liz 101]

I like the suggestions people have given for giving him a very specific task as ASM. Children who struggle with Asperger's often (but not always) mature out of the behavioral problems. Many that I have known are no more than a little socially awkward as adults, even though they were quite out of control as children and teens (some of my friends have been dx'd with Asperger's as adults, but were only labeled as "problem children" when they were young). Since this young man is improving, it's reasonable to think that he may make a perfectly fine adult leader at some point -- but he should be transitioned into this gradually and with a great deal of care.

 

One question that has been asked, but not answered I don't think, is: how long has it been since this young man has demonstrated poor judgment in reacting to a perceived insult? When was did the snowball incident happen? When was the last time you saw him shove a boy or start hurling insults in response to a little friendly banter? If the answer is "within the last year," I would say this boy needs to NOT be in a leadership position directly working with youth YET. "Super Quartermaster" might be fine if he can understand that he has some special rules.

 

If it were me, I'd sit down and talk with the young man about this plan, and just tell him straight up: We know you have some challenges that other boys don't have. We feel that you need a little extra maturing time before you are in an adult leadership position over the boys. In the meantime, we could really use your help with collecting money from the popcorn sales, sending out newsletters to the families, and inventorying the equipment. On campouts, we're going to ask that you stick close to the adult camp and resist the temptation to step in and take over for the SPL, just like the rest of us have to do -- you're not a youth anymore and the role is very different from when you were.

 

If he responded well and understood this, I'd figure I had a new ASM.

 

Just my $0.02. :-)

 

-Liz

 

 

[nrp1488 9]

You say that if he ever grabbed a boy, you would remove him. By that time, it's too late. You and a lot of other people who approved him would be liable.

 

Also, I've seen that a a lot of the physical contacts are initiated by scouts who still see the "new ASM" , who just the other day was a scout, as still being the scout that they used to horse around with.

[eisely 13]

I wish that I had seen this thread earlier, but I have been traveling.

 

I have to come down on the side that the priority consideration has to go to the welfare of the troop, not what may or may not be a good thing for any particular adult volunteer.

 

I don't know what the minimum age is for being a merit badge counselor. Perhaps there is a role for this young man in this capacity. Perhaps getting the young man into a venture crew would be a good intermediate step.

 

As others commented, everybody is different and a direct contact role is not best for everyone. I have not been around this young man but I have been around some asperger's youth. Erratic behavior is common with these folks and few outgrow all of this by their magic 18th birthday. One has to ask oneself, would such a person be an asset or a liability to the troop? Would I want this person leading an outing in the back country? There are plenty of adults without disabilities who would flunk the second question but can still contribute. From what little I have read in this thread, I would guess that a normal ASM role is not the answer for this young man at this time.

[Gunny2862 11]

Moving the young man into a Venturing crew may be a good idea. Settling him in on the Committee might have been a good idea too - If a position is open to him, which Bob White indicates is not the case.

 

BobWhite - can the individual in question be a Full ASM or only a JASM within a Troop structure?

 

It doesn't seem to me that ANYONE with a known past history of physical over-reaction to pranks, flying snowballs - "His problems have consisted of disproportionate responses. For example, a boy threw a snowball at him, and he grabbed the boy by the neck and threw the boy to the ground. Several instances similar to that. I'm not aware of him provoking, only reacting disproportionately. He also has a tendency to make threatening statements, which I think is his way of joking around with people - however others don't take it that way." - is a good candidate to fill an ASM or a JASM position. I also want to highlight Several instances similar to that.

 

I understand and applaud the idea of accommodating him for his disability, but unless he is in another adult leaders pocket like one might do with say a blind adult - when in a new locale guiding him to the point where he would perform his duties that fall within his abilities - the difference is that there is NO situation where the other adult wouldn't have to be FULLY aware of THIS prospective leader. So unless a current leader other than his parent will take him on as a full time project/responsibility, it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

I am also of the opinion that gaining(and keeping) the Scouts trust is an ongoing issue. Is putting someone in an Adult role(even as a JASM - considering the requirements for that role) who has assaulted a Scout before a positive step in that direction? And then what have you said about keeping the boys needs first, if he does over-react again.

 

This appears to be a situation where he needs to go to Venturing or at least stay out of the Troops day to day Direct Contact positions.

 

It may be that he could still function unofficially in the background - helping another adult committee member(i.e. sitting on BOR's, "Adult time" Quartermaster work, advancement paperwork, etc.) but I don't think I would prefer to have an individiual with the traits you have given in a Direct Contact role with the Scouts.

 

All of the above is JMHO. Take it for what it cost you.

[emb021 16]

"can the individual in question be a Full ASM or only a JASM within a Troop structure?"

 

The position of JASM is a youth position within the troop, for boys 16 to 18. (National policy is that JASMs must be atleast 16).

 

Once you are 18, you are no longer a youth in a troop, and so can't be a JASM.

 

For someone 18-21, the only positions within a troop available is ASM. AFAIK, you must be 21 to be on a troop committee or SM (or for that matter, a district/council scouter).

 

And as noted, Venturing is an option, as you are a youth in Venturing till 21.

 

Frankly, the positions for 18-21 'adults' is very limited within the BSA. Believe there are only about 4-5 positions along with Venturing/Sea Scout membership available to that age range.

 

[Basementdweller 608]

Whose son are you risking with this "loose cannon"? With prior knowledge and history. I think the parents and boys need to be made aware and they need to decide if he stays or go....

 

It is hard enough keeping an eye on all the boys with out having to worry about a ASM you have doubts about.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I wish there were a position "between" JASM and ASM for 18-to-20 year olds. Some in that age group would be fine as ASM's, but I think there should be another option.