Is there ANYTHING a scout is ALLOWED to do anymore ?!?!?

[Bob White 20]

I guess my question would be...When did you last take the scouts in the unit you serve to sled down hills on garbage can lids or any of the other activities you mentioned?

 

Because if you haven't then isn't it more your fault than society's or the BSA's? After all you know that they are not prohibited activities.

 

And if you have, then you really have no reason to complain about it since the scouts are evidently still doing those things.

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

Aha, as usual, you miss the point. I'll try explaining this in simple terms . . . .

 

Kids used to do things on their own. Sledding, climbing, etc..

 

Your solution to kids not doing things is to just exacerbate the problem by taking them to do the things that they should be doing by themselves and then say, "See . . . they are doing stuff." Maybe that makes sense to you but it really doesn't make sense at all.

[Bob White 20]

Sorry I thought the topic was what kids used to do and now supposedly can not do in scouting. I did not realize we had switched topics.

 

So outside of scouting, which kids are not sledding anymore or climbing trees or exploring caves? is it your contention that none of them do that, or that fewer do that? If fewer perhaps they are doing other things? Things that were not available 40 years ago or were more expensive to do than today, like rappelling, and canoeing, soccer, geocaching just to name a few.

 

I know you think that all the kids are glued to computers, but I remember 40 years ago when adults claimed that all kids did was listen to music and read comis books. So now the music is on I-pods, and the comic books have been animated and put on the computer.

 

Seems like kids still are drawn to them and adults still complain about them.

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

" I did not realize we had switched topics."

 

Ya gotta pay attention BeeDub.

 

" I remember 40 years ago when adults claimed that all kids did was listen to music and read comis books"

 

I don't remember that. As I recall, reading a comis book only took about five minutes, so even a dozen comis books in a month would only take about an hour a month. How many hours a day does the average kid spend texting, IMing, and playing video games not to mention just watching TV.

 

Music? Most of us had to be fairly stationary to listen to music, you couldn't tote your phonograph around when you were climbing trees.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Haul around a phonograph 40 years ago??? Man how square were you? I was 13 years old 40 years ago, and like every kid I knew I had a pocket transistor radio.

 

No kid only bought one comic book, and no kid I knew only read them once.

 

Adults used to make rules that comics and transistors couldn't go on campouts just as the adults today carry on the rant by not allowing I-Pods, Gameboys, and cell-phones. If troop leaders can't make scouting more fun than a Game-Boy then give the kid a break and let them do SOMETHING they actual enjoy.

 

Kids haven't changed and neither have adults, some just have very selective memories.

 

So GW when was the last time you did any of the things you mentioned with the scout unit you serve?????

 

[Gold Winger 9]

You must have had a different life than I did. The kids that had transistor radios didn't carry them around, that was for another class of people.

 

What does it matter if a scout troop goes sledding on a garbage can lids? You're still missing the point. As you missed the point with the comis books as you miss so many points in your efforts to prove that Scouting has no flaws and today is better than yesterday in every regard.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

If your point was that these are such important elements of childhood then why have you not done them with the scouts you serve?

 

You make it sound like kids don't do these things? Is that not all the more reason for you to bring them these "adventures" through the Scouting program you lead?

 

 

So if these activities are so important why do you not do them?

 

And if you do them with Scouts then what exactly are you lamenting about?

 

If your point is that kids use to do these things when there were no adults around, then how can you possibly know that they are not doing those things still...it's just that you are not around to see them.

 

You have no evidence that kids don't still have adventures, and whether or not they are the same adventures we had as a children is immaterial.

 

And you know that they are still allowed in scouting, but eveidently they are not something you have exposed the scouts to for some reason.

 

So basically, these seem very hollow complaints whose only purpose is to feed DeanRx's concerns so that he can be as pessimisstic as you are on the topic dispite the fact that you honestly can't be sure that kids don't do them, and that you don't help kids learn about them even though you could.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger 9]

Egads BeeDub! What purpose would it serve to just have yet another adult scheduled activity? Is that the way that you lived your young life? Did your mom say, "Come on BeeDub, let's go climb trees" or did you and your friends just decide to climb trees on your own?

 

 

[Bob White 20]

We climbed trees on our own while our parents were at work or doing other things, so again I ask you, if we agree that kids do these things without adults around...then how is it you know they don't do them anymore?

 

Didn't occur to you that you just aren't around to see what they do?

 

You brought these activities up, not me. If they are so all fired important then why do you not introduce the scouts you serve to these "adventures"? Why just complain about it and not DO something about it?

[Gold Winger 9]

"then how is it you know they don't do them anymore?"

 

Because I pay attention.

[Bob White 20]

How do you pay attention to millions of kids you cannot see?

 

And if you are convinced they are not taking part in these adventures on their own then WHY are YOU not making them available through Scouting?

 

Why complain and not DO anything about it?

[Gold Winger 9]

"How do you pay attention to millions of kids you cannot see?"

 

Because I have Wonkavision.

[evmori 11]

I read comic books & listened to music! Loved the Fantastic 4 & KQV! I was still outside every chance I could get. If no one was around I'd get out my football & practice my kicking! Or toss a tennis ball off the back wall of my house! You would very seldom find me in front of the TV or reading comics on a nice day! TV time & comic reading was for when there was nothing else to do! It seems today it's just the opposite.

[fleetfootedfox 10]

Bob White said, "Tap-outs were replaced by call-outs about 15 years ago. While that is long enough that scouts no longer learn about tap outs you would be amazed at the number of adults who still harken back to they youth and still try to do Tap-outs in the OA ceremonies. And while doing tap-outs certainly is a problem, simply calling them tap-outs is simply a generational thing and does not require a correction like you experienced."

 

I have the re-print edition of the 1950 OA Handbook. In that book, they use the term "calling-out", not tap out.

 

Also, check out this photo from 1940's: http://tmrmuseum.org/gallery/FOA005.htm

 

Interesting thing about the photo is that although they are doing a "tap" it is obviously not a violent thing knocking the boy off his feet or potentially causing injury. I don't think the original intent was to be so rough, and I doubt that all lodges condoned such roughness.

 

One dictionary definition of "tap" says, "to strike with a light but audible blow or blows." This is, I think, the original intent of the ceremony.

 

Finally, I want to point out that the call-out/calling-out/tap-out ceremony should never be viewed as being as important as the Ordeal ceremony itself, although it is very memorable when done well, and I believe it always varied from one lodge to another.

[shortridge 184]

Sorry, I think I missed something here.

 

What is a punching contest? And how is slugging someone Scout-like behavior?