Inappropriate touching of Scouts by leaders

[Beavah 205]

I have found out that this is not the first issue with this adult leader and the Committee Chairman has another complaint about him and he will be asked to leave the troop.

 

Yah, OK then, that can be a good answer too, eh?

 

Seems like you have more than the "do nothing" committee you described earlier, eh? That's a fairly prompt and pro-active "tough" response.

 

B

 

[acco40 95]

CalicoPenn - I think you got it slightly wrong. It should not depend on if the parent feels it was inappropriate or not but if the Scout feels it was inappropriate.

 

I visited my daughter's kindergarten class once. Well she wanted to show me off so to speak so she introduced me to some of her classmates. Well one little girl, whom I had never met immediately ran up to me gave me a big hug. The teacher, beign wise and experienced, said since I was there why don't I read a story to the class. Well, not knowing what to say, I agreed, sat down on the carpet (the reading spot) and before I knew it, another girl jumped in my lap. Truthfully, I was somewhat uncomfortable (all that Scout training I guess) but didn't make a big deal out of it. So, was it inappropriate? Well, my take is no, not on my part. It did not make any of the children uncomfortable.

 

I married into an Italian family where hugs by totally strangers is considered normal. C'est la vie.

[SSScout 1615]

Got here late (pant pant), sorry...

 

As in much questionable behavior, three things are to be considered: the intention, the perception, and the reception.

 

Others may never know the 'doers' true intention. The doer may not even be able to admit to it. Unconscious stuff may lead up to the action. This often involves deep psychologic stuff that ordinary Scout leaders might not want to delve in, probably don't even need to consider. But ultimately it is the act itself that will SHOW the intention. Sexual interest? Mere affection? Just congratulations? Centering attention? Which leads to consideration of the perception.

 

Spectators/witnesses often see different things from their own viewpoint and background. (Italian hugs?) How did the act look? Was it too "over the top"? Was the act just one of several? Would it seem 'different' if it had happened between adults? (crawling into your lap?) Was it done in 'private' (or perceived to be alone?) or out in the open? The need to be free of blame is very important to adults that deal with children and so ones actions need to be free of POSSIBLE blame. It can't even LOOK wrong. Or even SEEM wrong. This has led to our TWO DEEP policy and windows in classroom doors and doing SM conferences in the room corner instead of off in a closet.

 

Lastly and perhaps most importantly is the acts reception. How did the receiver of the act feel about it? Was it welcomed or resented? Was it appropriate to the situation or not? And because this is /are children we are considering, this includes the parent. Here's where the Golden Rule applies. Would YOU want this act done to yourself or to your child?

 

Now let's see, as Scouters, we should encourage applying the Scout Law to our actions. Trustworthy? Courteous? Friendly? Kind? Brave? Clean? In our dealing with such problems we can probably apply most of the Scout Law in speaking with our fellow Scouters and in helping troubled youth.

 

So what action do others take? Speak to the adult in question? Report it to the childs parent and/or SM and COR and CC and CH and DE? Report it to the legal authorities? Depends... but some action is always necessary if in YOUR mind, something WRONG happened.

Don't let it fester in your mind until the time comes when you start thinking "if only I'd done/said something..." .

[CalicoPenn 729]

Acco,

 

"CalicoPenn - I think you got it slightly wrong. It should not depend on if the parent feels it was inappropriate or not but if the Scout feels it was inappropriate."

 

I don't think I got it wrong at all. If an adult was stroking your sons hair and cheeks at a campout and your son didn't find it appropriate, would you, as a parent, agree with your son? I think most of us would say its inappropriate regardless of what our son, the Scout, thought.

 

Calico

[CalicoPenn 729]

(sigh - this is what happens when I submit in a hurry without re-reading what I've written - my above post makes no sense at all).

 

When I said "If an adult was stroking your sons hair and cheeks at a campout and your son didn't find it appropriate" what I meant to type was:

 

"If an adult was stroking your son's hair and cheeks at a campout and your son didn't find it INappropriate". Makes a big difference in the question.

 

So maybe I should rephrase it slightly:

 

If an adult was stroking your son's hair and cheeks at a campout and he didn't think anything was wrong with it, would you as a parent agree that there was nothing wrong with it or would you as a parent say "whoa - that is not something I want some adult to ever be doing to my son"?

 

Calico

[FireKat 10]

<sigh>...... this can be a never ending discussion but there is good advice here. I wish there was a simple answer. I have been watching this because I have a bit of a situation. Not major but after we had a suit happy parent for a while I started thinking.

 First, remember this is the hugging South. There is one scout about my sons age. He had a very diffulcult time awhile ago and the boys will come and confide in me a lot. I hear many thing that parents wished they knew but if it is not a major, illegal or something like that, I kaap confidences.  I helped him thru a lot of his problems - stuff like how to talk to parents about problems. He has seen my son hugging me and now I guess he feels like I am family so he huggs me a lot.  Always where others are. In fact he is the only one of the younger kids to call me 'Mrs.'  Like I saide the huggable south. I try not to hug hard (I have not been the overtly huggable type) but I do not wish for him to feel I am being cold.  (BTW hubby is usually standing right there).

Opinions all?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I'm in da cold, standoffish North, eh?

 

Honestly, I think our growing fear of physical signs of affection for kids is a form of violence against children.

 

Young people need affection - especially boys for whom shared time and games and roughhousing and such is more meaningful than talking about feelings.

 

The worst evil of child molesters is that they mimic the proper behavior of good, caring people - and provide affection and attention that other adults are too standoffish to provide.

 

So I'd say be an ordinary, good, caring person. Hug children that need a hug. Squeeze a shoulder, put an arm around a kid who needs it if it seems right and natural and welcome. Talk with a kid in private if there's a need to talk to a kid in private. Be aware, but not fearful.

 

Let's not have an increase in the youth suicide rate because we're too afraid to show kids we care about them.

 

Beavah

 

[FireKat 10]

Beavah, the possibility of suicide is the reason I really do not wish to have to stop showing I care to this boy. Life can be so hard on some and I see the signs of feeling not wanted. I hate this tightrope we have to walk now when trying to help kids.

[Slouchhat 10]

I agree, it is a tightrope.

In the German military, it is a tradition that a superior may not touch a subordinate without his expressive permission. The superior has to ask "Darf ich Sie anfassen?" (May I touch you?).

This works well with me touching the kids outside of teaching knots, demonstrating blade safety, first aid, etc.

 

Last week when one of my leatherstockings put his new uniform on for the first time, the buttonholes on his BDU trousers were somewhat tight so he couldn't force the buttons through and wanted a bit of help, I asked him first. Same with his new belt which needed adjusting in order to hold the pants up properly.

 

I want the kids to reserve the right to reject physical contact if they don't feel comfortable with the adult or the situation.

 

best regards,

Volker

[FlashScout 10]

Asking permission to hug is a good approach. Youth need hugs. I need hugs - from my kids and my wife. Many Scouts have come up to me and hugged me, and I don't hesitate to hug back - appropriately, of course.

 

Slouchhat reminded me of when I worked with an American troop in northern Germany. We had a molester who was caught with some of the boys in the troop(he was NOT working with the troop). We were on a camp-out in Luxemburg and one of the boys was crying. The SPL and I took him down the hill to talk to his mom who calmed him down. I found out he was worried about testifying against the man and worried about his Dad who was in Saudi for the start of the first Gulf War. I got permission from her and the Scout and I hugged him. It still brings a tear to my eye.

 

Don't say we can't hug when they need it.

 

As for other touching and stroking hair or cheeks/pinching butts, I say it's wrong and needs to be addressed. Not prosecuted, mind you, but warn the adult and if the behavior doesn't stop, remove him from the troop. I don't want to see another kid in that situation ever again.

[ninoniner 10]

It may appear to have been handled, but the APPROPRIATE action leaves no question - it's spelled out firmly in the Youth Protection Training that ALL adults leaders should take and renew every two years: If there is ANYTHING that COULD appear or DOES appear to be inappropriate that happens AT A SCOUTING FUNCTION OR EVENT, the local COUNCIL representative for Youth Protection (usually the council executive or their designee) shuld be contacted IMMEDIATELY. Then you should drop your own personal actions, and allow the council to investigate and determine if, indeed, anything inappropriate has transpired. The council will then intervene and respond to the allegations, and take whatever action should be taken. This could include removing a volunteeer, but if they find that someone has actually touched a boy in an inappropriate fashion, they may need to block the individual from ever being allowed to rejoin the BSA. This prevents the "problem" from simply moving to another troop or area. If you "handle" the situation yourself, you have contributed to the problem!! If the council sees fit, they may also involve the proper legal authorities; to protect the boys, the other leaders, and the entire Scouting movement. We as individuals can not even attempt to do that, ourselves. Proper reporting is absolutely necessary!!

[Beavah 205]

Hi ninoniner! Welcome to da forums, eh?!

 

I think it's important to remember that real world circumstances are a bit ambiguous. We want to allow hugs of a kid who needs a hug, eh? The standard for YP isn't that anything could appear to be inappropriate, it's that there's reasonable suspicion that something bad is happening. Folks should report to the SE or to the CO's reporting officer.

 

I expect that's what Source's troop is doin', eh? It's just that Source him/herself isn't involved in that level of the response, which would happen between the CO and da BSA.

 

Beavah

 

[Slouchhat 10]

I like the idea of asking the child permission to touch him/her.

After all, I'm not their dad (although they may regard me as their much) older brother or uncle at some point).

Asking permission shows respect for the children, their opinions and their right to determine who can touch him/her in what situation or circumstance.

We don't allow everybody to touch us, why should the child?

 

best regards,

Volker

[Source 10]

Well END OF STORY ....

SM and a ASM talked to both boys involved then talked to the Adult that was accused. He he admitted to going to far and not stopping when one of the boys asked him to stop. He says it was not sexual but he should of stopped.

 

The ASM and SM went to the CC with all the information. The CC let the Chartering Organization know what happened and the accused adult leader was asked to leave the troop and he did without question.

 

The CC did contact the parents of the boys to make sure the stories he heard where correct since he heard them 2nd or 3rd hand. He also apologized to the parents and let them know the accused adult will no longer be in the troop.

 

The SM stepped and did his job the way it should be done and system that BSA has in place seems to have worked properly in this case.

 

 

[Backwoods 10]

Beavah wisely said:

 

"The worst evil of child molesters is that they mimic the proper behavior of good, caring people - and provide affection and attention that other adults are too standoffish to provide."

 

I am both a scout leader and a school psychologist, so my perspective continues a little past the end of Source's story. The tragic truth that we are now widley aware of is that the adult that victimises the child begins with fairly innocuous behavior and continues to engage in more and more intimate and innapropriate behavior over time. The beginning behaviors that engage the child and gain their confidence are called "grooming" behaviors. The pedaphile slowly tests the waters and gains the child's confidence, slowly engaging in progressivly more intimate behavior. While I am fairly sure that the slap on my rear that my football coach gave me was not the beginning of grooming, it has been in many many situations.

 

So the cultural crime of the pedaphile is as Beavah points out, a reluctance to show kids in our community ANY affection, lest we be accused, at the same time confusing everybody about what is right and what is wrong. So where are we left? Ironically with kids craving the very behaviors that might make them vulnerable to a pedaphile! Crazy right?

 

My advise is this, 1) remember the bathing suit rule: If it is covered by a bathing suit you must avoid contact, physical or visual, if someone else violates this rule bring it to their attention immediately. 2) Always demand two deep leadership, it protects us and the kids. 3) Take youth protection training again and again, I do it once a year at least. 4) Lavish appropriate praise and affection on your scouts, model it for other leaders and even their parents. There is a lot you can do with a well placed "attaboy" or "great job". 5) if you hug that's ok, just don't linger; use the macho two pat hug and be done with it. If they cling that's ok fo a bit, just give clear body language that you are done.

 

I hope this helps a little. Beavah is right, we can't abondon children by practicing overly defensive leadership. On the other hand we cannot afford to be ignorant of the evils that are out there. Reminiscence for days gone by aside, we all know now that this stuff happened when we were all scouts, but nobody talked about it then.