Not Doing the Scouting Program, and courtesy

[GernBlansten 10]

Dang, you are right. I guess since I didn't make the top three, I just collapsed into a quivering jelly mass before getting to it.

But this changes everything.

Pardon me while I gloat.

 

Like The Jerk, "THE NEW PHONEBOOKS HERE, AND I'M IN IT"!!!!!

[John-in-KC 311]

I'm sorry, gwd

 

Bad John, Bad, Bad...

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Ok John, one more time, just because its you,

 

It was Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown

 

and

 

Big John, Big Bad John

[Eamonn 61]

But how good can the list be when John has a Dope on the list??

Ea.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Dont take it so hard Eamonn, we mostly all love you even if you are a limey. BTW, I will be visiting my sister in law to be soon, she lives in Prestwick, or something like that in Scotland, what's to do there?

[Eamonn 61]

"Prestwick, or something like that in Scotland, what's to do there? "

Prestwick is in Scotland, like many parts of Scotland the hardest thing for anyone who isn't from Scotland to believe is that the language they are using really is English.

As a rule a big pass time is trying to stay dry.

Scotsmen have found that if they stay home with a large bottle of their national beverage they can achieve this and if they drink enough of it they don't care if they get wet.

If you are into golf? Prestwick, boasts of having several historic courses.

At one time Prestwick Airport was a very big airport and I think there were several companies that were involved in aviation based in the area.

The entire area is very historic, but that's true for most of Scotland, the Scots have never let facts get in their way!

All joking aside!! Be very careful if someone invites you for "A wee dram" They have an enormous capacity for alcohol, warm beer and good whiskey will knock you on your tail real quick.

If you get to eat a real haggis. Don't ask what's inside of it just think oats!!

It is a great place for long walks and just being outside -Yes even when it's raining which it seems to be most of the time.

A good pal of mine is the Scout Commissioner for the Commonwealth, but I'm not sure if Scotland has their own?

I'll send him a line tomorrow and ask what the Prestwick Scouts are up to? Maybe you might want to visit a unit?

Eamonn.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Dope?

 

Dear

Old

Pennyslvanian from

England?

 

???

 

Inquiring minds, E!

 

John

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmm. This was pretty depressin', eh?

 

My way of lookin' at it is that if we're telling someone that they're "not doing the program", and especially when we imply (and often state outright) that what we mean is they're not being trustworthy, then we're really sayin' they shouldn't be a Scouter at all. Dat's pretty personal, eh?

 

Here's some of da things over the last week or two where we've told someone they aren't a worthy fellow scouter:

 

* Troops or Councils putting restrictions on who can be MB counselors in order to address a particular concern.

* If scouts dont plan all hikes and campouts.

* If the SM doesnt choose the same leadership style da poster would in that circumstance.

* If the SM addresses another boy instead of the SPL.

* If a patrol does a patrol outing the same weekend as a troop outing.

* If a trainer offers personal suggestions or insight.

* Teaching additional skills beyond those that are listed in the T-2-1 requirements to first year boys.

* Mentioning or trying any _former_ Scouting program element from Hillcourt, B-P, BSA, etc.

* Having an adult patrol.

 

Are we really sayin' that someone is not a fellow Scouter because they talk to a PL rather than an SPL?

 

My suggestion is very narrow. Just eliminate that kind of thing, and the slams about not following the Oath and Law and such. Not limit da discussions of things that seem important, nor refrain from politely offering BSA information that may be helpful. But I reckon if we really want to be of service, and listened to, especially by someone we feel needs to hear the message, we catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

If yeh feel something is unsafe, by all means say so, and explain your reasoning why. Help a fellow scouter to understand. I don't reckon any of us wants a hurt boy. Dan did that at one point without all da "you're not doing the BSA program!" stuff. He said in essence "Hey, I don't think PVC pipe can reliably handle da pressure, and here's a link to why I think that. You should be really thoughtful about that." Classy.

 

If yeh feel somebody should be more flexible about an advancement rule, by all means say so, and explain your reasoning why. Help a fellow Scouter to understand. "I interpret that advancement requirement to mean XXX, because YYYY, and that seems to me to be a better way to get to ZZZ. I think you might consider re-thinking how you approach it."

 

I'm not tryin' to ask for miracles, eh? Heated discussions are at times worthwhile and fun among friends and colleagues.

 

Just lets try to rein in da language that says "I'm not your friend or colleague." Da dialog has taken quite a shift recently. That's worth reflectin' on.

 

Beavah

 

[Hunt 11]

My take on this is that discussions can remain courteous and helpful if folks will remember to discuss issues on the merits. That means, for example, if you want to discuss age-based patrols, explain why you think they are effective, or why you don't. It's fine to cite BSA's position, but even if it's a BSA rule, it's better to explain why it's better. If somebody really wants to know whether approach X is the best, they will not be assisted much by either of the following: (1) Approach X is suggested/discouraged by BSA or (2) Use Approach X if it works for you. Rather, people want to understand the reasons behind an approach, and how it has worked out in practice. If it's an approach that BSA promotes, that's evidence that it's good, but not conclusive.

When we're talking about BSA safety requirements, or specific advancement requirements, or the like, it certainly is relevant and important to understand what BSA requires, and to point out--politely--when somebody seems to be straying from those requirements.