Webelos and Camporees

[John-in-KC 311]

Maybe the issue is to stop calling it a Camporee, and stop pretending it is.

 

Your latest post implies Scouts giving volunteer service to your home city, coupled with having some form of campout. Now, if you have age appropriate service Cubs can do, that's fine. Keep going. If, OTOH, you need the strength and stamina of 11-18 year olds to give this volunteer service, call it a Festival Service Camp, and then get on with doing a proper Camporee... one that gives the Scouts FUN and CHALLENGE.

 

There is room to do both in your district calendar. I'd bank on it!

[Crossramwedge 10]

KC,.you misunderstand. The scouts are going to do what scouts do on a Camporee. They will be doing Flint and Steel, Map and Compass. Dutch Oven Cooking as well as several other "competitions". I will not list them all. The Scouts are seperated from the Area where the "Festival" is taking place. There will be only 2 Scout "competition' events that will be open to the public to watch because the City requested that we do so and these events will take place during the "Festival" and on their site. What is the matter with showing off the "Scouts" talents? To me it creates "good will" all the way around. There is no volunteer work/service done for the city. Any way , thanks for your advice.

[Eamonn 61]

"We would like a loop hole to get this thing done."

Do we really want to set the example that finding and using loop-holes is the way to go about things done is OK?

I would hope not.

Ea.

[ScoutNut 147]

I appreciate that you, various CM's and SM's, and the city, want the Webelos involved in this. I also appreciate the fact that many Webelos are quite good at camping. That, however is not the point. Just because "a majority" of the leaders in your area think an activity is a good thing does NOT make it a good thing in the eyes of the BSA. It is the opinion of the BSA, thru your council, that counts. It is their name out there in front of the city on the activity and the program.

 

Also, your comments about looking for loop holes and being "bitten by the Legal Beagle", are not good ones. Your "Legal Beagle" is correct. BSA policy is VERY clear here.

 

Instead of looking for loop holes, work WITH your council and the BSA National policies. If this is truly the ONLY Webelos programing that your council will do all year, why not do it correctly and make it truly a Webelos event.

 

Separate the Boy Scouts camp area from the camp area with the Webelos and their parents.

 

Include a separate program of activities for the Webelos.

 

Do NOT have Webelos participating in Boy Scout competitions/events.

 

If you want the Webelos involved in the festival have them do a demonstration of WEBELOS skills.

 

Or, if you want them to do something with the Boy Scouts, have 1 of the Boy Scout "public" events be a First Aid Demo. The Webelos can be fixed up with various injuries and be the victims for the Boy Scouts.

 

 

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[Crossramwedge 10]

I apologies for the "Loop hole" terminology. I did not mean that in a bad way. We just wanted to find a way to get this done and of course use " Legal" means to do it. I come to this site for advice and some times I do get carried away . We are trying to work with the Council and had already discussed with them separate camp areas, BALOO, separate activities, parents/legal guardians, one night camp out, observation of "Scouts" only, no partaking in any kind of BSA activities. etc. etc. It all comes down to the interpretation of "separate camps" and in this one mans eyes the "Scouts" even being in the vacinity. I guess this is a lost cause. The "Cub" leaders really need to do this and we ( BSA Leaders) need to let them do it. If they do not get the job done, so be it. We were just trying to involve the younger guy's so they could enjoy this experience. So thank you for all of your advice.

[FScouter 24]

What you have planned sounds more like a Scout-a-rama or Scouting event, and less like a Boy Scout camporee. Instead of having "separate" everything on the same day at the same location, why not just do the festival event as planned, and do a camporee on another date? What, really, is the point in combining different kinds of events under one umbrella? It all sounds overly confusing.

[kahits 10]

Very interesting discussion... We have a situation with our single patrol troop of mostly 13 to 15 year old boys. We have 2 packs that will potentially bring many crossover scouts to our troop, but not for a while. There is one Webelos II's in each of these packs, and I am trying to devise a method to reach out to them to invite them to do things with the troop. Being a single WebelosII in a pack can't be that fun for them, and I am sure they would appreciate the opportunity. Part of our challenge is that we have some HS freshmen who joined the troop in the spring and are still new to the program (they are friends of another boy who joined 2 years ago). They have no settled down in troop meetings to the level of the other boys, my son included, who have been there two years or more. I plan to send most of them to NYLT, next June, but right now, I'm not convinced a 5th grader would find this small troop the kind of place they can aspire to be a part of. I'm probably being a little pessimistic, but we need to get our boys all on the same page, to successfully recruit Webelos into our ranks. But, right now, I'm trying to understand which kinds of troop activities are best for them to experience, and what needs to wait until they choose to joing the troop. Any suggestions would be appreciated. (I know this might be off the subject, but I didn't want to make a new post.)

[John-in-KC 311]

PUSH OUT ONE OF THOSE HS KIDS TO BE A DEN CHIEF TO THAT ONE BOY!!! MAKE HIM FEEL THE MOST SPECIAL 10 YEAR OLD IN THE WORLD!!

 

Yes, I'm shouting

 

 

[kahits 10]

Thanks, John.... My son's den (5-8 boys) had a DC from Bears to crossover. I don't know what they are doing with this lone W2. I imagine he is in with the W1's, who could all probably use a DC, but only one of our older boys is 1st class, and he would be a good candidate, along with my son, but I need to find out if he is still in the pack. And if our older, and newer, scouts can get their act together, they might do well to invite him to attend some of our troop activities, but that is probably not the issue at hand. Getting the boys to get a handle on their group leadership is probably the most important.

[gwd-scouter 11]

Kahits, I think we've discussed this before, but our troop has been in a similar situation as yours. Last year, we were working with a Pack that had one second year Webelos Scout. He went to Den Meetings with the first year Webelos, but felt a bit left out. We sent the Pack a Den Chief to work with this Webelos Den. After the blue and gold banquet at the Pack, the Webelos Den seemed like they just weren't going to do much more of anything for the rest of the year, so we helped out this single 2nd year Webelos Scout by having him attend our Troop meetings. He was not registered as a Boy Scout because he was not yet 11 years old or finished fifth grade. He was very close to finishing his arrow of light requirements, but needed outdoorsman activity pin and to attend Boy Scout meeting and outdoor activity. What better thing than for his Den Chief to work with him to complete these requirements? He did and had a arrow of light ceremony just for him at the end of March at which time he officially joined our troop.

 

I will say this was a very special boy, not easily intimidated by a bunch of older Scouts, and maybe not like most 10 1/2 year olds. He was alone as the youngest Scout for several months but we just added another new Scout in July. They have become very good pals.

 

The benefit we are about to reap from working with the Pack I mentioned here in addition to another I haven't mentioned, is that now after a couple of years these Packs are larger and both have 4-5 boy 2nd year Webelos Dens looking at our Troop to cross over in the Spring.

 

 

[kahits 10]

Thank you, GS... Yes, we are traveling a very similar path here. Althought I have not heard back from the WDL, I think he will find us very helpful. According to their new CM, he has 2, WBII's in the pack, one of which I have known since he joined in the spring of his Tiger year, coming in as a Wolf. I'm just amazed that he is still there, with his single mom's challenges, along with his younger brother. The WB DL's son is the other WBII, so these two would bring much to our troop, as small at it is. I realize my son would be the most logical candidate to be their DC, but I won't be in any hurry, with the school year just getting started. I will probably have him get the DC training, just the same, and see how it goes. Since I left that pack, some 19 months ago, so much has happened for myself, but I do feel the need to reconnect to the pack. No matter how many leaders you get to take your place, it always is painful for the ones the are given the responsibility of running the pack after your departure. They are doing great in that regard.

[epalmer84 10]

We have an annual spring event known as Scouting Adventures. This is specifically designed around the Webelos program and is timed so it is well before crossovers. We have been running this about eight or nine years and it is very popular.

 

Troops host Webelos dens; the den camps beside the troop and eat with the troop. Scouts from each troop run stations designed for Webelos, somewhat similar to Gold Rush. Scouts are judged on how well they run the station and Webelos are judged on their performance. There is a closing campfire and Webelos can go home after.

 

After Sunday breakfast, we have chapel and then a Boy Scout specific event.

 

Ed

[GS-CS_leader 11]

Our district usually has an annual "Webelos Woods" in which troops camp from Fri-Sun and Webelos are invited for Saturday (with den and/or parent) and optionally Saturday night (with a parent). I was not able to attend that event last year, but my ADL's son did with his dad, and that experience pretty much sold them on our pack's affiliated troop whom they camped with. I attended our council's 100th anniversary Camporee with my son two weeks ago. Most Webelos visited only during the day on Saturday, but my son and I stayed overnight.

 

It was certainly interesting for me to wander around the tent city looking at the various different kinds of troops. The huge troops with lots of gear; the ones with unruly, disorderly scouts who thoughtlessly tramped through other troops' camps; camps with a lot of adults in their own little social groups; troops with patrols cooking their own meals and troops with what seemed to be a troop menu and an organized chow-line.

 

At the Camporee, my son could not do the water-activities since he had not earned his swimming merit badge, and he would have been a spectator, not a participant for any of the competitions. However, there were definitely some activities more aimed at Webelos (by council-design, I'm sure), and there were a number of activities that would be appropriate for either Webelos or BS. My son probably has more advanced camping experience than many of the newer scouts since he has spent many summers at a nature day camp (which does some camping overnighters) and he has camped with his family, including a couple of 5-day wilderness canoe trips in the Boundary Waters. In the case of second year Webelos like my son, he will be joining a BS troop in only a few months, so it seems silly to maintain that there is a firm dividing line between Webelos and BS-appropriate activities. Yes, there are some BS activities that my son is not ready for yet, but there are an awful lot that he is able to do. In fact, at this point, the Webelos in my den are getting a bit old for some of the pack activities which after all have to be manageable even for the new Tiger CS.

 

I personally feel that it is extremely important when looking into potential BS troops to be able stay for an extended time and preferably overnight with them on a camping trip. If you just see a troop for a few "visiting hours" I think you're less likely to see what the troop is really like. You especially need plenty of time in order to judge whether a troop is *really* boy-led. More time and also time at night or morning when scouts may be tired allows for more opportunities for little things not to go quite as planned. And which things those are and how the situation is handled says a lot about the troop.

 

I'm certainly glad our council allowed Webelos to attend the Camporee. I think it was a great way to show off scouting at its best to Webelos and their parents and will really encourage more of those Webelos to cross over to BS.

[Eagle Foot 10]

Webelos...just depends on how thight your council wants to be. We have a joint camporee...

 

Fall..Webelos and Boy Scouts...Webelos come during the day in the fall, visit other troops get to know them and have a good time, more trainning events for the Webelos and re-trainning for the Boy Scouts. We offer a special incentive for the Boy Scouts to come...i.e. climbing & repelling, shooting, etc. Split the groups when Boy Scouts are teaching Webelos the other half (Boy Scouts) are at the sports, then reverse the split. When it comes to Spring Camporee it's only for the Boy Scouts...then you step up the program for them. By this time you have your new Scouts from Webelos and you can comply with National...more boys equal more fun...this seems to work well for us, but you still need to plan, practice, and be prepared out far enough.

 

Edited by Eagle Foot

 

 

 

[jhubb 10]

We also have a Weblos woods. It is always a big hit with all the weblos.

the scouts have a seperate area that the weblos arnt alowed in after 6:00 pm.

that way they are seperate at night and it gives the "scouts" a little break from the "little guys" (some are only 1 or 2 years older but it makes a difference to them). I was with the Weblos last year and I saw a biger push from those "little guys" to be "BOY SCOUTS"after the camp out that wasnt there for all of them before.

I belive it is also a requirment for the weblos to do a camp out with Bot scouts to get the arrow of light