What should BSA change?

[packsaddle 753]

I like the program changes that Kudu has articulated over the years.

 

Drop the DRP and really become inclusive. Then fire some attorneys and devote those resources to the boys.

 

Allow UUA boys to wear their real religious award, BSA pettiness has gone on too long.

 

Although I am a strong supporter of backpacking and I do agree that it provides a harsh lesson for the unprepared, if it is made a requirement, some alternative needs to be in place for 1) handicapped persons and 2) inner city troops that simply don't have the resources. Similar comment for lifesaving and swimming.

 

Total agreement on cooking. If BSA wants to take a giant leap forward and wants to be able to ban something. Ban Poptarts!

 

Care should be taken during any recrafting of the requirements so that the requirement itself does not, in effect, exclude boys from the program.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Scouts and Scouters,

 

Remember, this thread is on what the BSA should change, discussion/reaction are all topics for more threads

[GernBlansten 10]

I would change the structure of BSA to allow membership have a vote in policy matters. Currently, from my understanding only, COs have a vote but most COs do not exercise it, giving councils/National a free hand to do whatever they please. Change the arrangement so that councils/National report to the membership.

Currently the LDS church has the most units chartered but do not have the majority of membership. I think this is a misrepresentation of the majority if BSA is gauging policy on the most chairs at the table.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, this seems like an every-3-month thread, eh?

 

I find myself in agreement with the group. Here's how I think about it...

 

PROGRAM

Da program needs only minor adjustments. Here I agree with OGE and others.

 

* It would be helpful to have mandatory, meaningful training and "continuing education" for scouters and other key positions (CC, IH/COR). Meaningful in that it demonstrates exactly the same kind of expectations we have of scouts - a demonstrated/tested level of mastery. Avoiding adult "training mills" (get a knot) is also the best way to avoid adults running "advancement mills" (get a badge).

 

* Uniform is finally goin' the right direction. Keep goin'.

 

* Revise the required badge list to include cooking, swimming for sure, and some badge that reflects an honest-to-goodness "real" level of physical fitness. I like da Owl's idea about backpackin' too. Also would get some adults off their duff. Consider whether we can go to 25 for Eagle.

 

Yah, but my real wish for Advancement is that we could make the parent pressure less dysfunctional, and de-emphasize it. It's only one of our methods, but it seems to take up more than half of our printed materials and our time. Where it gets out of hand, it turns us into "school" rather than "fun" and puts pressure on kids in all kinds of bad ways.

 

* I see lots of room for improving da program materials, which are really weak on providin' highly-specific guidance to newer leaders on demand, and seem to generate this "book as bible" thing in some people. Better writing, and shorter, more targeted materials that offer ideas and options would be nice. Things like "practical suggestions on how to run a small troop", or "how to run a safe river canoe trip," or "the top 5 different ways to set up patrols, and how they work."

 

Related to that, re-word all the advancement requirements in the present tense for clarity. As written, they put too much emphasis on the test, not on the learning. "Be able to select a tent site and pitch a tent, and demonstrate this ability by xxxx." "Be able to splint a broken ankle, and demonstrate this ability on demand, in a first aid scenario set up by your troop or counselor." Make it clear that it ain't a one-shot parrot exercise, but something we want kids to learn to do on their own.

 

* More camping in webelos, more adventure in Boy Scouts, more independence and high adventure in Venturing.

 

 

INSTITUTION

I think da institution is where our real weaknesses are. I don't think one Council in ten is lively, proactive, service-oriented and healthy. About 4 in 10 are weak. About 1 in 10 are evil, in that they're lyin'/cheatin'/stealin' or workin' their own agenda at the expense of the kids. Been involved in this at different levels for a number of years, and it's pretty discouragin'. Much like U.S. politics, a fair chunk of the organization has shifted from a service-mindset to a personal-agenda-and-policy mindset.

 

Don't know how to fix it, either. Still plenty of good, service-oriented people in it, too, more's the pity. But da corporate culture has become mildly toxic in many places, and it's killin' us, both nationally and locally.

 

 

[emb021 16]

"I would change the structure of BSA to allow membership have a vote in policy matters. Currently, from my understanding only, COs have a vote but most COs do not exercise it, giving councils/National a free hand to do whatever they please. Change the arrangement so that councils/National report to the membership."

 

While I would still give COs a vote, I agree that ALL BSA Members should have a say in things. This present structure of ONLY COs having a vote is ridulous.

 

I am a member of a parlamentary club (a club which studies parliamentary procedure). When I described how the BSA operates, they felt it strange. A fundamental principle in parliamentary procedure is that members have a vote/voice in their organization. How can you say you are a member when you don't have this? It flies in the face of hundreds of years of tradition. (thanks you, James West).

 

"Currently the LDS church has the most units chartered but do not have the majority of membership. I think this is a misrepresentation of the majority if BSA is gauging policy on the most chairs at the table. "

 

The LDS charteres the most unit. The Methodists are second.

 

The Methodists have the largest number of youth members, the LDS is second.

 

 

 

[SemperParatus 1]

Eliminate the bloated and ineffective Council-system.

 

Replace them with five BSA owned and managed regional service centers geographically dispersed throughout the US. Service centers handle all inquiries, applications, advancement records, rechartering, training, literature distribution, etc. (all on-line and performed at the speed of clicks). Scout stuff is all online and ships next day. Council camps are all placed in separate land trusts (prohibiting sale) that are operated and managed locally by a board that is held accountable by BSA national for performance. BSA should hire effective senior executives that can shake out the incredible inefficiencies imbedded throughout the system, dramatically improve services to volunteers, market the program, and secure significant funding arrangements. Dropping the multi-million dollar budgets of 300 councils and replacing them with service-oriented and technology-advanced professionals will help ensure that our contributions and fundraising efforts are not wasted by a highly ineffective business model.

 

BSA should allow gays and atheists to be members.

 

BSA should call the full uniform, Class A.

 

Merit badge classes should be banned and eliminated from summer camps.

 

Troop size should be limited to 75. Troops who successfully recruit can spin off new units. That is how membership numbers will grow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trevorum 24]

"Troop size should be limited to 75. Troops who successfully recruit can spin off new units. That is how membership numbers will grow."

 

That's an EXCELLENT idea. I'd suggest maybe even limit troop size to 50 - six patrols of eight each, plus an SPL and an ASPL. (This from the SM of an 80+ troop.)

 

[scoutldr 726]

Thanks for all the excellent brainstorming! Keep it coming!

 

I would like to see ALL BSA forms and publications available on-line in .pdf format. That way everyone has access to the latest version ALL the time.

 

Failing that, local Scout Shops should be prohibited from selling off supplies of pubs and forms if a newer version is available.

[local1400 10]

Only 5 regional service centers Semper? I am already 2 hours from MY council's service center (90 mins. from neighboring council). Plus, that would virtually eliminate the lucrative CSP and Lodge Flap business. And on that note, how would you handle OA Lodges? If there are 5 lodges, we would all have complete sets of flaps and strips eliminating a fun aspect of the program for most of us. My funny friend, Johnny Fish (not real name) always quips to me "Ever notice there are Lone Scouts, but no Lone Scoutmasters?"

[SemperParatus 1]

"I am already 2 hours from MY council's service center (90 mins. from neighboring council)."

 

You will be so much closer to the new service centers - they are right there on your computer screen or other end of the phone. Open 24/7 with always the right answers and exceptional service. Can call, chat, research, download, upload and accomplish any admin task from the comfort of your home. Consider the last time you went down to your council office...couldn't the visit have been accomplished easier and quicker if the online systems were in place to eliminate the trip altogether.

 

 

"How would you handle OA Lodges?"

 

The existing lodges could certainly still exist. Heck, new lodges could be created - no longer being yoked to a council. In my imaginary world, the lodge organization would be clustered around the local scout camp, where the lodge would serve as an even more important caretaker of the property.

 

The volunteer structure at the local level would also continue to exist, with a greater emphasis on the representation by local units, rather than good ol' boys doing the bidding for paid suits downtown.

 

Trust funds for scout camp maintenance and improvements could be established and initially funded with the monies currently held by the local councils (which will be dissolved) and by selling off the council office buildings (how's that for a switcheroo).

 

Its the business side of scouting that needs to be revamped and brought current.

 

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

[packsaddle 753]

Great ideas, Semper! I agree. And Beavah really hit a home run with the observation on institutional weakness.

Can you imagine how much money would be SAVED by dumping the councils? I have advocated this for ours for years! Keep the camp and the service center (we get our stuff usually in 24 hours).

Also agree with Trevorum's limit of 50 or so for a troop. Great ideas, folks! Think anyone is listening?

[local1400 10]

While you make some very sound financial moves SP, I have to say as an officer of organized labor I would absolutely oppose the loss of jobs. America has lost enough jobs already. Less people employed = less income tax dollars which then = higher taxes for the rest of us! My council is in the black, as well as the neighbors. And I happen to like going to the council shops- friendly people work there. Maybe I should've mentioned that the council-shop-next-door is 5 minutes from my workplace. Adding OA lodges would only dilute the already dwindling number of Brothers (but certainly would bolster the collectors collections!). Maybe as an ASM I should get a paycheck? How about paying camp staff competetive wages equal to fast food? That should spell the end for my beloved BSA. Who could afford Scouts anymore if your kid was charged $5,000 for 1 week of camp or $200 week for meetings/outings? Compare it to daycare. I like the program- it has evolved to stay relevant. I don't mind the uniform-I just wish for more color and neckerchiefs (still useful for first aid purposes-met a lot of boys at a recent camporee who didn't have one for slings or splinting and were using whistles and belts to make splints). I will continue to support the program with my time and money but will only buy new uniforms as replacement necessitates. If I had a 70's green uniform in 2x, I would still be wearing it. My council is doing good, numbers are up, great camps- I can't complain. But I do respect your opinion Semper.

[RangerT 10]

I think that the real issue here is that most of us want to preserve the scouting heritage of our own youth or that of our father, and the reality is that most teens today are not interested in that heritage. In this fast pace technologically advancing world our kids have been absorbed into a sort of virtual reality. The principals and morals of scouting are still relevant today but the outdoorsy, hiking and gung ho camping trips and skills are not relevant to pre teens and teens, in other words most just aren't interested anymore. So what do we do? We have to meet the kids where they are at now, and appeal to them by doing the things that they are interested in. Shoving a program at them developed 50 or more years ago will not work and the numbers will continue to drop as recent history has proven out.

 

So for me thats one advantage of the Venturing program, there is something for anyone with any background or interest to do, and yet the values of scouting are still an important part of the program. That is one reason I took over a Venturing crew five years ago, and we keep growing and RETAINING our teens. I know Eamonn dislikes Venturing, but if the program is done right it really does work, I know this from personal experience. Now they have to create something similiar for boy scouts and cub scouts. All the Baden Powell original program flag waving is pointless with our dropping numbers nationwide. Besides Baden Powell was ahead of his time, if he were alive today I am sure scouting would be very different. So we can keep beating a dead horse until our numbers dwindle down to nothing: or we can get with the kid culture of today and build a program catering to their wants not our own desires. If we stand rigid and refuse to bend with the times then scouting could disappear in the next ten years.

[fotoscout 15]

Here is my list:

 

1. The Charter Organization structure must be eliminated. Too often BSA hides behind the phrase "We don't own the units, the Charter Organization does". Consequently BSA is lame when it comes to implementing meaningful rules across the board; rules like mandatory training. Additionally, it's the large blocks of Charter Organizations that have rained havoc on the BSA for years now. We would be in much better shape if the organization were centrally "owned"

 

2. Small, floundering units should be routinely shutdown by their Council. Too many people get a bad taste of scouting because they become associated with one of these small floundering units. We get too much bad lip service because of what happens in these troubled units.

 

3. BS unit activity calendars should be screened yearly for the activities that they bring to the boys. Too many units exist with an activity calendar that does not excite the boys. Units should be forced into providing exciting outdoor activities for their boys.

 

The opening post in this thread commented about the folks in Irving, and whether or not they read this forum....... About 4 or 5 years ago someone in this forum created the concept of a "Den Meeting in a Box". By now you all must know that "Den Meeting in a Box" is now available at your local Scout Shop. So, I would say that yes, they do read this forum. Now if someone could tell me how to collect my royalties I'd be much obliged.

 

foto

[John-in-KC 311]

Always remember...

 

Be careful of what you ask for. You just may get it...and all the unintended consequences that came with it!