Bridging to Troubled Waters ?

[dave.424 10]

My den bridged over to Boy Scouts last night. All the boys present in both graduating Webelos dens had earned their Arrow of Light award, with the exception on one boy who had just joined this year. OA reps had a nice ceremony after which each of the boys were presented with their career arrows. There were speeches, gifts and hugs. It was a great ceremony and, I'll admit, an emotional night.

 

Here is where I'm a bit conflicted and may have a difficult situation once I start getting involved with my son's troop. I had one boy in my den who joined as a Bear. For first year and half or so, he was involved in various sports, but still managed to be pretty active with the den.

 

Since January, he'd pretty much disappeared - only making it to two den meetings and no pack meetings or other events. However, he managed to attend three of the four troop visits and his dad assured me he was going to continue on to Boy Scouts and would start making more meetings as soon as his basketball season ended. I last saw or heard from them at our second to last den meeting. He did not even show up for briding last night.

 

The dad owes the pack registration money for this year because he assured the CC that his son was re-upping and would send her a check. A good chunk of this money goes to pay for the carreer arrows, plaques and engraving that we have done in addition to what we had to send to council. Although I sent him a note and cc'd our CC that she would need his registration money by a certain date or we wouldn't be able to commission an arrow for him, she did go ahead and do the arrow so that if they made good and ended up actually briding the scout wouldn't be left without one. I was also a softy and registered the 2 of them for our camp-in at the Maryland Science Center based on his word that he'd make good. They didn't end up going and, of course, there are no refunds from MSC. Despite an e-mail in February specifically saying that he'd stil get me a check, I not seen a dime.

 

I know I've learned a lesson and hope that our CC has, as well.

 

Also, I never received the son's troop selection after multiple requests. Not even an "he's not sure". I noticed the other day, though, that the dad was signed up for the Yahoo group of the troop my son is now in. I sort of assume this means they are joining the troop and the son would likely end up being in my son's patrol and I'd have to deal with the dad.

 

I just feel that he has spit in both mine and the pack's face. I will find it a challenge to be civil with him, but will strive to do so.

 

OK. There. I've vented. Thanks for listening.

 

 

[kb6jra 10]

I'd put a bug in the ear of the new unit's CC that money talks with this guy. I've had this type of family in the unit and it never amounts to much more than unpaid bills in my experience. Don't front anything is my advice from this point forward.

 

Good luck.

[FScouter 24]

Not trying to defend his non-payment at all, but, you said "pay, or else". He chose the "or else".

 

When it comes to registration fees or any fees, a good policy is to register those that have paid, and notify the others they have opted out.

[dave.424 10]

Thanks, kb.

 

Yep. That's my lesson learned and not just for him. Though, I was in the scout shop yesterday before the ceremony and picked up 2 spare spiral bound Boy Scout handbooks. I'd had one parent who'd asked me about it a couple days ago and was pretty sure some one else in my den would need one. I figured someone out of the two dens would need one. Worst case, I could return them to the store.

 

I tried to at least set a deadline with him over his son not getting his career arrow, but our CC did one up anyway. At least they'll be able to reuse the mounting since she didn't attach the engraved plaque to it.

 

I had couple of families pay and then ended up not going, but they understood they wouldn't get a refund and didn't make a fuss. MSC was willing to allow us to use the paid for, but unused slots on a second, smaller group, but I put the word out and no on responded.

 

It's just so frustrating. Especially in contrast to the thanks and apprciation I received from the other parents and boys in the den. You just need to try and put these things behind you, but when you have to continue to deal with the offending individuals, it's that much more difficult.

[dave.424 10]

FScouter: " Not trying to defend his non-payment at all, but, you said "pay, or else". He chose the "or else".

 

When it comes to registration fees or any fees, a good policy is to register those that have paid, and notify the others they have opted out."

 

* * *

True, expecpt he didn't tell us what he was choosing. This was also after he said, "Yes, please register my son and will send you a check." Of course, it was the CC that opted to register him without first gettting the money and to make the arrow without ever having gotten the money.

 

To me the worst part isn't necessarily the money, but the fact that he opted to completely ignore me and the CC over the last couple of months. If he'd at least said, "I'm sorry, but I just can't pay you," or "You guys have really offended me and I'm out of here", or anything, I might not feel quite so annoyed.

 

I do agree that the "money or else" is the way to go, though. After all, it's not the parents that are promising to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. We'd hope they'd model these traits for their children, though.(This message has been edited by david.self)

[kb6jra 10]

When I was CM, at one point we had a policy that you were paid up on your fees before your son got his patches. That worked as long as you had someone willing to be the bookeeper. I have that same policy in my troop, but my treasurer is not affraid to walk up to you and say you owe money. We have one family that refuses to give up the $$ and quite honestly if they're not willing to pay the $27 a year with boys life, then what's the point. Camperships are available but you have to meet me half way.

[Lisabob 13]

Yup, been there. We had one family in my son's den who perpetually did this (or worse, they wrote us checks that bounced!).

 

Keep in mind that troops are different from webelos dens and the boy - not you and not his dad - should be in charge of submitting his own registration paperwork and fees to the SM or treasurer (or whoever) for upcoming campouts and activities. If he isn't there, he doesn't submit the payment, he doesn't go. Not your problem.

 

In your shoes I would be civil and polite if they happen to show up for a meeting, but I would absolutely avoid going out of my way to contact these folks. If you call or email the dad and say "hey, do you want me to sign Jr. up for...." then he'll probably say yes! Don't offer. And do let the CC of the troop know about your past money issues too so that the troop can avoid getting short changed.

 

Whether you decide to continue trying to recoup your existing losses is a whole separate issue. Unless it was a lot of money, I'd be inclined to say forget it. But that's just me.

 

And to be honest, it doesn't sound like this boy is likely to stick with scouts much longer anyway.

[Stosh 3452]

A scout is trustworthy....

 

How would anyone ever expect these scouts to ever get to tenderfoot when things like this happen? Obviously the Scout Law means nothing to these people.

 

We've had our share of people stiff us for varying amounts of money and equipment. Small claims court and lawyer letters have gone a long way to help out with these kinds of problems.

 

Stosh

[gwd-scouter 11]

Speaking from the Troop side of things, I've had my share of parents like this. Notices are sent to every family via email and regular mail about recharter. Fees due, date due, etc. A few weeks ahead of the final due date a reminder is sent that if the money is not paid for reregistration, the Scout will be dropped from the charter. Yep, had my share of Scouts that show up months after the charter and I have to talk to the parents and say that their son is no longer registered with the Troop, but if they pay XX dollars, we'll reregister him.

 

It's harsh, I know. But we had years of a few folks that were just not very good at paying up when they needed to. Or, it was scouts that had poor attendance through the year and parents/Scout never responded to emails about campout fees, etc. Usually, the boy is involved in other stuff, scouting is secondary to everything else, and the boy will drop in from time to time.

 

Interestingly, those same parents will be the ones that suddenly get interested in Scouts if their son continues sporadically through the program but somehow manages to be close to "making" Eagle.

 

Got an email just a few days ago from that same type of parent. Suddenly, after years of nonresponsiveness to my correspondence, she emails me wondering about her older son and what he needs to do to "finish" Eagle. He will be 18 in a little less than 2 months.

 

Hmmm.

 

David.Self posts: "It's just so frustrating. Especially in contrast to the thanks and apprciation I received from the other parents and boys in the den.

 

I feel your pain there. Some of the parents in our troop are very free with their compliments and thanks. Others treat our leaders as babysitters. Our roles as leaders with Scouting sometimes gets very few thanks and appreciation from the parents of the boys we serve. It can be frustrating. But, remember why you're doing what you're doing and don't let those folks get you down.

 

As you've moved into a Troop and this Dad seems as though he's moved his son in as well, it is no longer your job to look after that boy individually as you felt you needed to do as his Den Leader. Let it go, move on, and enjoy Boy Scouting with your son.

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[gsettle 10]

After a few lessons I learned to set a cutoff date. You also have to be willing to stick to it. Money lessons are tough. The pack and troop have both been burned by perfectly nice, well meaning parents. One of the big lessons in the Scouting Program is responsibility. If the boy doesn't get it from the parents then where will he get it. Of course your pack/troop can have a 'emergency reserve' for boys. Then they can learn to count on that! Probably the best thing you can do is to make and publish the bylaws that govern membership, awards and whatnot. And stick to them. Its actually easier to tell 'Joe' if the $'s not in then its no-go when written rules are in place.