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dScouter15

NYLT Recruitment

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Older son went to what was then called JLT in 2000. Worked as staff for two years after that. Also worked on summer camp staff for three years after doing JLT staff. He highly regarded the JLT program and recommended to others in his troop. Back then, though, only one other Scout in the Troop ever attended and the families had to pay the cost.

While his Scoutmaster at the time suggested it to Scouts, it was never really given much effort in promotion.

 

Our Council's JLT/NYLT has always been held the same week as ourCamp Staff training week, although in different locations. This has caused a problem with my younger son as he has been hired to work camp staff this summer AFTER he had been signed up of NYLT. In our case, summer camp program director told him he had no problem with younger son missing staff week because of NYLT. In fact, he was glad to hear he was going.

 

I don't know much about the differences in the curriculum from JLT and NYLT. I have two Scouts going from our troop, my younger son (a month away from 14) and another older Scout (age 15) currently serving as SPL - really, the two oldest most experienced Scouts in our Troop of nine. Our Troop Committee decided that if we thought this training was important for our boys, then the Troop ought to at least pay for half of the cost ($180 this year), especially since we're asking these boys to go for the benefit of their troop.

 

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ASM915

Dining flies, chuck boxes, cooking equipment, rope,

GPS, batteries, stoves, propane.

 

Each patrols gets a dining fly and chuck box.

 

All participants and staffers receive a NYLT shirt, tee shirt with the course info on it and a hat.

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OK

"My son came back a changed scout. It was after this course he dropped a school activity and decided to run for SPL. He came back proud to be a scout, wanting to lead. The NYLT patch he wears is the most important patch on his uniform to him."

 

Convinced me I will wait the year to send him he will be 13 in September and is already a Star and has all his MB's for life needs his 6 months tenure in his POR. He hates his current POR Troop Quartermaster but it makes him stronger in his weak areas organization and keeping track of things. He talks about SPL and the next day talks about quitting. I chuckled when I saw the homesickness thing my son can not wait to be out on his own and out from under my roof. He has been to a summer camp and a week long winter camp in another council as a provo, stuck in with boys he knew nothing about and done fine. Perhaps it is in the genes I was away at military academy at the age he is now and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

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kb6,

"Every boy in my unit 1st class and above, 13yo or older attend. There's just no question."

How do you pull it off?

How do you get the scouts to buy in on it?, and the parents?, the rest of the troop leadership?

 

At tonights meeting, we the leaders, were having a long discussion on what we can do to improve the troop when it comes to older scouts stepping up and helping the younger scouts. We've had some issues lately. We have two 16 yo's (both 17 next week), one present every meeting (semi-special needs) and the other frequently. These two are alright. #1 has problems with some scouts taking him seriously, but he shows the most scout spirit and has been hired for camp staff this summer. #2 is going to NYLT this June.

 

Next come the two 15 1/2 y/o's. These two are an issue. One has a authority respect issue, maybe NYLT next year. The other has a follow the gang of one (the other 15y/o) mentality.

The last five are 3 11 y/o's, a 12 and a 13 y/o.

 

Tonight I made reference to your post, as well as the post about how some of the scouts had come back from NYLT and dropped something else to put Scouting higher on the priority list. They were wondering how you manage to enforce the NYLT deal.

 

The mother of the 13 y/o and the problem 15 y/o was present, waiting to pick up her boys (soccer mom/coach, marathon runner). First thing out of her mouth was a comment about only having 2 weeks a summer for family activities, because they were all so busy, two-a-days and what not. I gave the dates, the week after school is out, no two-a-days until July. "But he (the 15y/o) has summer school (so he can take an additional class in the school year).

 

The discussion died down with the suggestion that maybe we try to insitute your idea with the younger Scout's, that the troop will pay for tham to go to NYLT once they turn 13y/o, and that it would be a prerequesite for ASPL and SPL. If they opt not to go, they can be a Guide, Scribe etc., but not SPL or ASPL.

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>>The discussion died down with the suggestion that maybe we try to insitute your idea with the younger Scout's, that the troop will pay for tham to go to NYLT once they turn 13y/o, and that it would be a prerequesite for ASPL and SPL. If they opt not to go, they can be a Guide, Scribe etc., but not SPL or ASPL.>>

 

Hi All

 

This is a pretty interesting discussion. I spent several years involved with troop and council JLT, which at the time was called JLTC in our Council. I also communicated with a lot of Councils comparing their JLT programs and performances. Many if not most councils customized there courses as well.

 

The answer to the question of how to fill the courses is first find out why the troops are not going to the course, than fix it.

 

About 10 years ago our Council did a pretty in dept polling of scouts and adult troop leaders to on our JLTC program hoping to understand why we were struggling to fill one course a year.

 

We found that most scouts come back pretty hyped up from the course. But interestingly the main complaint about the course was basically the same from the scouts and adults. They didnt see any noticeable difference in Troop program and performance after the scouts came back from the course. The scouts complained the adults wouldnt let them try the new skills, and the adults were frustrated the scouts werent using any new skills.

 

Further study found that the problem was the adults didnt really know what the scouts learned; therefore they didnt know how to help the scouts take advantage and use the new skills. The scouts on the other hand didnt really make an effort to use their new skills because they didnt really know how to implement new habits and skills into the existing environment, which was much different from simulated program in the course.

 

Being a SM and the Council JLT Chairman, I saw both sides of the problem. The scouts didnt know how to use their new skills in an old existing program, and the adults didnt know what the new skills were to help them implement them into the old program. Example; During our JLTC course, each scout will have written least 20 meeting agendas. The problem is we found that 90% of troop adult leaders dont teach meeting agendas at all.

 

As for the age thing. JLTC was design to develop skills for senior leaders, generally 14 and older. I assume NYLT is the same. We did allow exceptions because some troops are young and dont have older scouts, but it was rare that a 13 year old got much out of the course because the subject was over their head. We had some homesickness, but our main problem was boredom. Now I know of some councils dummy down their material so that they can fill courses with younger scouts, but that usually reduces the course to a Patrol Leader development level JLT. That is fine I guess, but that is really the SMs job, not the council.

 

Looking back, my guess cost is a huge issue. Of course many troops can help the scouts out, but there are a lot of poor small troops out there. These troops spend all year just trying to get to summer camp, NYLT is just simply out of the question. This was a huge issue for use back when JLTC was just around $100.

 

The problem with filling courses comes down to course reputation. We made a lot of changes to our JLTC to change the perception and it worked. We were filling two courses a year looking at a third. But I would say it takes at least three years to change a perception, so it is likely your course will struggle to fill for awhile even after you attempt to fix the problems.

 

Barry

 

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Barry,

Have you ever come across the problem of yours or another Council scheduling NYLT/JLTC and Summercamp Staff Training week the same week? If so, any ideas on how to approach Council, and on a fix? Like I stated in an earlier post that is a problem here. I'm glad to see that our Council has kept our NYLT priced at the level that you had your scouts paying back when ever.

Hope to hear from you soon.

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Yes and we moved it. You would be surprised how few weeks there are to choose from. Wood Badge itself takes up six of the weeks in our council. The best weeks to get camp are in the middle of summer after summer camp. But, those weeks are taken up by family vacations and high adventure. So we got creative. We started experimenting different weeks. We tried Fall Break, Christmas Break and Spring Break. When I left the program we were doing Fall Break and Spring break. But Christmas had a very good turn out as well. The thing about Fall and Spring breaks is they are close to the Wood Badge courses. So instead of us spending a few days opening and closing camp (Christmas Break) we worked close to the Wood Badge courses to save on everyones time.

 

All Councils are different, but the Council staff needs to be really open minded and look for school out weeks that don't conflict with other programs that pull older scouts. Watch out for OA events too. Our best source of youth staff came from OA, so they helped us out a lot with equipment and adult volunteers. But there a couple of OA events that can conflict as well. Like I said, there aren't that many choices. But I certainly wouldn't do it on a weekend where older scouts have to attend another event.

 

Barry

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Two things come to mind -

 

1) Has anyone ever done/seen the NYLT split up over several weekends. That seems like a good way to schedule it for maximum participants, and around adult and youth staff work schedules. But, to me, I think splitting the course up would be a net negative.

 

2) I remember reading in Scouting magazine a few months ago about a council out west that ran their youth leader training, woodbadge, and a family camp simultaneously. Have any other councils looked at this possibility? It seems like a good idea, but at the same time it would be a logistical nightmare, and perhaps require resources in terms of staff, coordination, camp facilities, etc that many, if not most councils would not be able to accomidate.

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dS15 and Barry,

Interesting ideas.

Our Council WB is held every other year, over two weekends, a month apart, August and September. It would be interesting to see if WB and NYLT could be held together. I feel there would be enough staff to run both. Our Council is also fortunate enough to have two camps 20 miles apart. The NYLT is usually held at the older camp while the Staff week is held at the main camp.

The winter break would work with the older camp with indoor facilities being available, actually the main camp also. They could use the Webelos side of camp.

As for fall or spring break, sounds like a good idea, but I seriously doubt that we could get all of our school districts to coordinate being off the same week, unless it was state mandated. LOL. We cover 8 counties over two states.

The winter break is at least uniform. Maybe NYLT could be ran then for the Scouts planning on applying for camp staff and the summer for the rest.

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Our NYLT is held the same week as staff week. Always has been I think. Younger son had already signed up for NYLT and paid his deposit when he found out he was selected to work staff this summer at camp. Program Director for summer camp is understandably disappointed that younger son will not be at staff week. I don't know how often this conflict comes up, but maybe if it happens more often, Council will try to change when NYLT is offered.

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>>1) Has anyone ever done/seen the NYLT split up over several weekends. That seems like a good way to schedule it for maximum participants, and around adult and youth staff work schedules. But, to me, I think splitting the course up would be a net negative.

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On 4/25/2007 at 3:26 PM, Eagledad said:

We found that most scouts come back pretty hyped up from the course. But interestingly the main complaint about the course was basically the same from the scouts and adults. They didnt see any noticeable difference in Troop program and performance after the scouts came back from the course. The scouts complained the adults wouldnt let them try the new skills, and the adults were frustrated the scouts werent using any new skills.

 

Further study found that the problem was the adults didnt really know what the scouts learned; therefore they didnt know how to help the scouts take advantage and use the new skills. The scouts on the other hand didnt really make an effort to use their new skills because they didnt really know how to implement new habits and skills into the existing environment, which was much different from simulated program in the course.

Hi Barry ( @Eagledad ) and company,

I realize this is resurrecting a very old thread. 

But do you have any advice for the adults on how to help the scouts take advantage of and use the new skills they have learned at NYLT when they come back to their troops?   I have three scouts going to NYLT later this summer . . . and yes I really don't know what the scouts are going to learn there.

 

Edited by Treflienne
typo

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6 hours ago, Treflienne said:

. But do you have any advice for the adults on how to help the scouts take advantage of and use the new skills they have learned at NYLT when they come back to their troops?   I have three scouts going to NYLT later this summer . . . and yes I really don't know what the scouts are going to learn there.

 

William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt said it best: "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!"

The Scouts will be learning how the ideal troop works: youth led with adults providing support. They will be learning the skills needed to make it happen: communication, representing the group, counseling, etc. Here is a link to the 2014 Syllabus https://scoutingevent.com/attachment/BSA358/58960_1449594194_1802.pdf  I beleive that there have been some minor changes, but do not know for sure. Either way, it will provide a foundation of understanding for you.

IMHO, the hardest part will be letting go of control and letting the Scouts take over. You trained them with ILST, and trusted them to learn more with NYLT. Now you gotta trust them to apply what they learned and lead. It won't be perfect. they will make mistakes but you MUST give them the opportunity to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

Some of the things ideas I offer:

1. Make sure the PLC is meeting on a regular basis to plan and prepare. You would be surprised at the number of troops that do not do this.

2. Resist the urge to intervene and take over. If you want to destroy a troop, that is the way to do it.

3. As soon as you are able to, go through Wood Badge. NYLT is Wood Badge for Scouts. In fact staffers can earn their 3rd and fourth beads running NYLT now. CAVEAT ABOUT WB: WB was orignially intended to give adults advance outdoor skills in a Patrol Method environment. While over time it has morphed into a management course, some elements of the Patrol Method survive AND some participants when they return to their units continue to act as if they are in patrols still. OUR JOB AS SCOUTERS IS TO SIT BACK DRINK COFFEE, BUG JUICE, OR COCOA AND ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE SCOUTS AS THEY RUN THEIR TROOP. ( caps and bold are emphasis).

4. Listen to you Scouts' words, and actions! I knew a SM start a new troop and spent about 5 years getting it to completely boy-led. One of the things that helped was at the 3 or 4 year mark, he had Scouts old enough and First Class to go to NYLT. That really helped the troop. The SM stepped down and a new SM took over. The new SM ignored his Scouts, especially the NYLT ones, and ran his own program. He stated to his UC that "BSA needs to change with the times." as the reason why he was not using the Patrol Method, and completely ignoring the Scouts. Some of the Scouts were polite when they talked to him about how he was screwing up the troop. One was right to the point. It didn't matter, he was ignoring everything BSA teaches: planning the meetings and camp outs without the Scouts input, appointing all leadership positions including PLs and SPL, etc. 

Once the Scouts realized it was useless to talk to him and try to run the troop, they talked with their feet: they left. The older ones Eagled and left. A lot of the younger ones transferred to another troop. So listen to your Scouts.

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Ask each scout 3 things they learned at the course that they would like to try in the troop. Then sit down with them and develop a plan for working the ideas and goals. That way your are working as a team to improve the program with ideas and skills learned from the course. We asked the SMs to spend an hour with their scout before the graduation ceremony.

Barry

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