How do we compete against the allure of a Webelos III Troop?

[gwd-scouter 11]

I have another thread running about what to say to someone when they ask why our troop is better than another without disparaging the other troop.

 

But our District has several Troops that would be called Webelos III Troops, along with several that are doing the patrol method, boy-led thing.

 

But, what do you say to a parent and scout that is looking at your troop when they mention another Troop that has boys earning over 20 merit badges within 2 years and making Eagle by 14, sumptuous banquet for every meal on campouts (prepared by the adults), volunteering as an adult leader means not doing anything (cause the SM or ASM does it) except hang out with your son?

 

Really, why wouldn't a parent find that troop more attractive?

 

 

[scoutldr 726]

I would ask the parents what lesson their son learns by having an adult do everything for him? As has been mentioned in other posts, many of today's parents view the Eagle as "let's get it done, check it off the list and move on to something else"....a resume entry for the college application. After all, as soon as we make Eagle, we can quit those annoying weekly meetings, campouts and popcorn sales!

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

Do you really want "push-button Eagles"?

Usually their parents are (fill in unscoutlike term here)

 

 

I would try to interview the parents and the boys at the same time and then talk to the parents alone. Ask if they want more coddling or gradual steps to manhood. Any mother with a brain is going to want a strong self reliant young man. Ask the mom if she wants to curse her future daughter in law with a husband that can't think for himself.

Ask the boy if he would like to be in a group that is led by the boys.

 

In Cubs I had a Dad that admitted he never scrambled and cooked an egg in his life. This guy has 4 kids!!!!!

[Gonzo1 10]

You don't.

 

Simply have a better program, better boy led leadership and explain that parents are to enable the plan, not conduct the plan. That is, parents guide the PLC to some extent, drive to the outing, maybe teach a new skill once and supervise.

 

Let parents know that they are welcome, but they don't recognize their son on the outings. Sure, greet, see how they're doing, but don't cook for your kid. Don't solve your kids problems. Don't put up or take down any scout's gear, etc.

[Lisabob 13]

Well ok gwd, why didn't YOU want that sort of a troop for YOUR son?

 

Some parents do want that sort of experience and you probably will be happy to see them go to a troop that is willing to cater to them. Many more parents will be happy to see the program run the way it is "supposed" to be, with all the opportunities for character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness training, which are after all the "aims" of scouting.

 

Don't sell parents (or their boys) short. Tell 'em what your troop's program is designed to offer and let them see for themselves. I think you'll find you are attracting people who are committed to the real scouting program.

[evmori 11]

Ditto to what Gonzo posted! Ya don't! Ya promote what your Troop does well.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[BrentAllen 10]

gwd,

Keep these B-P quotes on an index card in your pocket. I find them to be very helpful reminders for me and the other leaders. They are found in the Scoutmaster Handbook, on page 20 & 70. When the parents ask those questions, pull out the card and show it to them. Tell them you agree with the founder of Scouting on how to run a troop.

 

"The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the only way. Unless the patrol method is in operation, you don't really have a Boy Scout troop."

 

"The object of the patrol method is not so much saving the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy."

 

"Training boy leaders to run their troop is the Scoutmaster's most important job."

 

"Train Scouts to do a job, then let them do it."

 

"Never do anything a boy can do."

 

Robert Baden-Powell(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[Eagledad 2777]

gwd, you are a successful SM of a successful boy run program. So I know you have answers to your questions. Your program is the best, why do think that?

 

Barry

[gwd-scouter 11]

Hmmm, how do I answer my own question? Well, first I guess I will admit that our troop is successful - to a point. Yes, we have worked hard to become boy-run and that's working well. Yes, the boys are very active and committed to their troop and we have close to 100% participation for everything. Yes, our leaders are all trained. Yes, I spend a great deal of time and enjoy mentoring and training our youth leaders to learn to plan more efficiently and think more creatively, encouraging them when they get frustrated, and helping all the boys learn how to recover from mistakes they make along the way. Yes, our boys are advancing, albeit slowly, without it seeming like work.

 

But, we are still so small. We have been more successful this past year than ever before in attracting new Scouts, we just can't seem to close the deal.

[JerseyJohn 10]

Provide the parents a copy of the aims and methods and simply ask them a question

 

1. Which troop do you believe serves those purposes best?

 

YIS,

John

 

[Gonzo1 10]

If you still have some resistance, you could ask the parents a series of questions leading them to YES answers like:

 

You do want a boy led troop, don't you?

 

You do want to boys to learn to do for themselves, don't you?

 

You do want boys to EARN their advacement, don't you?

 

 

[local1400 10]

I came from a small troop (15 to 20 Scouts) and am now ASM of a 40 boy troop. I think I like the smaller size a little better. At least trying to organize was easier. Trying to teach a MB to 28 boys proved trying at best-disruptions abound in large numbers! You will grow gwd, and may end up pulling your hair out! You are doing it right. Your boys may provide the testimony needed as I recall some of the activities you have mentioned in your posts. I am always skeptical when I read a slew of 13 year olds earning Eagle all at once and in step with each other all the way. Not saying push through for sure, but.....you know what I mean?

[John-in-KC 311]

gwd,

 

I hear a lot of hype about 60-80 boy "really big" troops.

 

Guess what: They may well be shortchanging the boys.

 

Someone did a study for their Commissioner College doctoral thesis, and iirc the optimum size is a bit under 50:

 

4-5 patrols of 8, plus:

 

SPL

ASPL

QM

Scribe

Bugler

TG

OATR

 

That means 32 + 7 or 39 boys, or 40 + 7 or 47 boys is about right!

 

The blunt question to be asked is: How much independent responsibility do you want your son to have right now? That is the important thing our Troop emphasizes: Independent responsibility.

 

Not all parents want to give their children independent responsibility. They will want the Webelos III type troops. Oh, well.

[MollieDuke 10]

I tell my parents that BSA is about the journey. Boys typically don't dress alike, listen to the same music, take the same high school classes or end up in the same jobs. Why would we want to create a cookie cutter environment in scouting for them??? It is about each boy being a respected, contributing, independent community member eventually and finding out who HE is in relation to his environment, not having his environment created for him.

 

This is our troop's philosophy and if that is what they want, great. If not, bye bye. It's that simple. If the parents want a cookie cutter environment, they'll just be a problem within our troop's philosophy anyway and make everyone miserable including the new boy.

 

I find many parents are afraid to let their son go to an independent boy led troop because they don't feel their son is ready for that, so I also have them talk to the troop guide, the New Scout ASM, and at least one boy and/or parent that just left New Scout Patrol. This generally makes them more comfortable.

 

We also have a parent's meeting with all new parents the very first meeting which is required during which we discuss the differences between BSA and Cubs and why they are NOT in Webelos III. That generally helps make it all clear as well.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I think gwd is on to a real problem. See it some around here for sure.

 

The problem is that all of the arguments people are givin' in the thread really only work after parents have gotten to know you and made significant contact with your program. And it's hard for any argument to beat the visceral "out of control" feeling boy led leaves people with. Whether it's worry about starvin' or something else.

 

That's some of the reason for NSP/FCFY, eh? Create a sort of webelos/boy scouting "hybrid" for a year to ease the transition. Only contact with select/"safe" older boys designated as Troop Guides. Dedicated ASM. Focused program that shows "organization" and "steady progress" and all that. Plenty of troops go that way and are effective, especially in crossover/year 1. Yah, sure, some of 'em also stay Webelos III.

 

If yeh don't take that approach, I think you have to go a bit out of your way to seem well-organized and "on the ball" during recruiting season. Newsletters, phonecalls, better-than-average communication. Some tightly focused stuff for the parents to go along with fun for da kids. It's a nervous thing for a parent sendin' their kid off with strangers and a bunch of older boys. They want to see tight, safe, well-organized.

 

So meet 'em where they are. Do what you can to convey that message. That way you'll have the chance to deliver your message over time to more receptive ears.

 

Beavah