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A question regarding my sons Eagle project. The other day my son was working on his Eagle project which is building shelves for band instruments at a local school. His plan was to get lumber and build two shelves to add to an existing shelf. He got a little lucky in that the building our Troop meets in is being torn down due to its old age and our new space lacked enough room to hold all the shelving we had in our previous building so since a Scout is Thrifty, he asked the Troop if he could use some of the shelves that were going to be demolished with the building and taken to the land fill for his project. The Troop and our CO didnt mind so he had the Scouts remove one 5/8" plywood bookcase 5ft X 3f X 2ft from the second floor of the Troops old building along with some sheets of plywood the CO gave him for his project.


He went to the school to install the bookcase and measure for the remaining planned shelf. He found that the location for the yet to be built shelf would cover an air intake for the ventilation system and thus would have to be moved to another area of the band room. The band teacher, after arranging her instruments on the new shelf discovered that the installation of the new shelf provided more storage space on the older existing shelf and sent us the following email yesterday in response (to my son asking her if she liked the new shelf and to ask her if the location he chose for the next shelf would meet her approval and to arrange for work time on the next shelf) I think what we have now is fine. I am concerned about space. The band is now getting larger and I dont want the percussionists to have less room.


At this point (2 months after receiving approval on the project) since the band director is satisfied with the project, do you think he should count up the his total hours spent thus far plus any final time spent on getting the secure doors made (I would guess he has 10 hours at most since this large cabinet was pre-built). I told him last night that since shes satisfied and concerned with the lack of space he should add this to his project planner as part of the outcome section. Will the brevity of the project be a problem at Eagle BOR even though he had planned another shelf but there were space limitations that led him to alter his plan? What do you think?



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I have taken our council's course qualifying me to chair Eagle BoR's. From what you have written, I would have no problem with your son's service project as it stands. It appears that the teacher might be trying to change the rules in the middle of the game and get more from your son's project than was originally agreed. Get the teacher to sign off on the project's completion a.s.a.p. and hold the BoR. Then pull out all the stops at the Eagle Court of Honor! -gb

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OK, so the plan has to change a bit. Life happens.


Scout should teacher, and just as important, principal, if opening a vent hole to fit in the recovered closetry, and placing it where it should have been, will optimize the storage.


For this meeting, Scout should

- make a business appointment after school,

- be in full and correct uniform.

- get some photos of what was, what is, and what he thinks he can do

- Approach teacher and principal not just as a student, but as someone in the community supervising the donation of time, labor and materials.

- Pitch his concept, and get feedback.


If the feedback is "We're happy," get a signoff on school district letterhead!!!


Lessons I'd hope Scout extracts:

- Change happens

- Leadership sometimes means stepping beyond your years to run a meeting.

- Leadership sometimes means supporting the intent, not the letter, of a project.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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I serve on the Districts Advancement Committee and review Eagle Projects and do BOR as well. In just about every BOR I ask if there were a lot of changes in their Eagle Project or if the project went the way the scout thought it would. If the scout says the project went just as he planned, it sets off the red flag and whistles. If it went that smooth, its time to check the plan and preparation. What I am used to is the scout telling about everything he didnt "figure" on, and how the issues were handled. I have always thought one of the greatest lessons of the Eagle Project was that not everything goes as planned, but even then, you can still accomplish your goal. From what you say, the goal was accomplsihed, project over.

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There's no set time requirement for the Service Project beyond "as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others". If your son believes that he has sufficiently proven his leadership of others and is satisfied with the outcome of his project, and the teacher is satisfied with the project (I don't get a vibe that the teacher is looking for more beyond what the project was, the vibe I get is that she is happy with what was done and the project is done), then get the approriate signatures and go for the Board of Review. If your son feels that 10-hours aren't enough (and I notice that you mention those are his 10-hours - what about any hours of the people he was leading to help with the project - weren't there people who helped him install the shelves? - the people he was leading for his leadership service project) and wants to add something else for his own peace of mind, then he could work with the teacher to identify another need in the band room.


Just food for thought



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Let me make sure I understand. The approved project was to build, from scratch, two shelves and expand a third. Part of the project was completed by moving an existing cabinet from the Scout building. At that point the band director decided she didn't need/want the rest of the shelving after all. You son has about 10 hours into the project. Is that his time personally or is that 10 manhours total? Does that include his time spend preparing the proposal?


In our council that would not cut it. This sounds to me like a significant change in scope for the project. Our advancement committee requires that any change in scope of a project be resubmitted. Yes, you have to stop, document the changes and have them approved. Did your son's proposal include an estimate of how long it would take? Was it significantly more than 10 hours? If I've got my facts right, the original project was to build two and expand one shelf. He relocated one. That is a significant change.


The essence of the Eagle project is leadership, not construction. I can't see that moving and reinstalling a cabinet would take a whole lot of time. Manhours is a fairly reliable quantitative (but not qualitative) measure of leadership. You can manage a few people for a long time or a lot of people for a short time. Either one requires the planning, communication and organization skills we are asking the Scout to demonstrate.


Our council has a guideline that proposed Eagle projects be in excess of 100 manhours. A project significantly short of that, or one where the committee feels the Scout has over estimated the time, will be rejected. If a completed project comes up short of 100 hours, that's okay, as long as the project is completed as planned. Had your son built all the shelves he had proposed but just completed them faster than anticipated, he would be okay. Deleting a significant part of the project is not. That the band director is satisfied with the project is immaterial.


I'm sorry to be the party-pooper, but if I were the district rep on your son's Eagle Board, I would not approve the project.

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First, an amendment to my post, since the time for me to change it has expired:


It should read: Scout should visit with his teacher, and just as important, principal, if opening a vent hole to fit in the recovered closetry, and placing it where it should have been, will optimize the storage.


As to twocubdad's comments, this is why we can be friends and give our input here, but only the District Advancement Chair, on the ground, can give final comment on what will or will not pass muster. I strongly recommend you (I re-read who you are ;) ) contact the DAC and bring this up offline. The issue of the school backpedaling on an approved project concept should be part of the question.


Please, let us know how this turns out.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

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Okay, a couple points of clarification.


Since it wasn't really the point of the thread, I didn't go into all the specifics of reviewing projects. In our council, completed projects are submitted with the Eagle app. After the app is verified by the registrar, it is assigned to a trained district rep (and I'm one) who checks out the project and represents the district advancement committee on the Eagle board of review. If I were given Richmond's son's packet and the facts of his project were as I understand them, I would refer the project back to the advancement committee. It would all be resolved one way or another prior to the BoR.


I may have given the impression that this would all have been dumped on the Scout at his Eagle board. No. What likely would happen would be that the Scout would be asked to find something else he could do for the band or school which would expand the overall scope of the project. It wouldn't necessarily have to involve shelves in the band room. Some solution would be found. We wouldn't just tell the Scout, "sorry, this doesn't cut it."


All that is from my perspective as a district advancement guy. As a parent, I think John's advice is good. You need to initiate the conversation with the advancement committee. But I wouldn't go in to the conversation trying to sell the idea that the project should be accepted because the band director is okay with it.


My point is that through no fault of your son, the scope of his project has fallen below what is acceptable. You -- excuse me, your son -- needs to be asking the advancement chairman what he can be doing to make it right.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

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