evmori 11 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I would bet all of us have been leaving a Troop meeting & noticed one of our Scouts standing waiting for mom or dad to pick them up. I would bet we have all hung around to make sure the Scout had a way home. I would bet there are times when after we waited awhile, we took the Scout home in our vehicle without another Scout or adult when no one showed up to pick the Scout up. Common sense people! That is what is required. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
frank10 12 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Again, there is no "unless" clause in youth protection. At the end of our meetings two adults leave togeather after all youth members are gone. Your logic is like saying that if you only had a two seat truck it would be ok to let the boy ride in the bed. It is not. If you train a boy to think exceptions can be made how will he know that it is wrong when Mr. X offers him a ride home? If it's ok to be alone with youfor a " counseling session", maybe it's ok to stop by Mr. X's house when you've had a bad day. After all, he did offer last week when he drove me home. Abuse does happen! Give the boys the tools they need to protect themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 >>On the other hand, the SM taking scouts on a hike without other adults is wrong. Not having a fire bucket handy is kinda wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Hunt 11 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'd just like to mention for the sake of those who may be reading this who are not steeped in the rules, that there is a difference between "two-deep leadership" and "no one-on-one contact." Two-deep adult leadership is required on trips and outings--it is not required for meetings (although it is a good idea). No one-on-one contact means that an adult should never be completely alone with a boy (who is not his son)--but this doesn't mean that somebody else has to be able to hear what they are saying. They just have to be within view of others. Also, a single adult can be with two or more boys--ie, when they are having a merit badge counseling session--there does not have to be another adult there. There can also be two or more boys in a car with a single adult. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 There is not rule against a SM taking scouts on a hike w/o an adult so long as there is more than one scout... And National is leaning away from fire buckets...If we can't even get some of this stuff strait in this dicussion... Yah, Eagledad, that's part of the point, eh? There's always someone as wants to shout "wrong, wrong" over something, whether they've got the rule right or not, whether they understand the rule or not, and whether they're balancing the risk against other important needs of the kids or not. I just think it's nicer to say, "Hey, make sure you consider this..." rather than "wrong, wrong!" That way, we acknowledge the role of understandin', interpretation, balancing goods, and common sense. And the possibility that we might be wrong ourselves. We need to do right by kids, and that means (in part) protectin' 'em and equipping them to protect themselves. That can be accomplished by alertness, compassion, and common sense, eh? Yah, sure, and some good solid guidelines. It can't be accomplished by thoughtless adherence to scripted procedure. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Beavah, You've started a multitude of threads recently with slight variations on a theme. You keep advocating tweaks and adaptations to the Scouting program and admonishing those who would employee "thoughtless adherence to scripted procedure". I'm really not sure who you are targeting with your comments? Just who here at Scouter.com is advocating "thoughtless adherence to scripted procedure"? Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 "Aye, the Pirates Code...We been thinkin', it's more like 'guidelines' anyway... arrrgh!" So we install windows in all the church classroom doors... we hold SM conferences on the bench in the hallway and passerbyes just know to ignore them...we make it a point to never be in PRIVATE conversation with only ONE Scout... If the young Scout is having a nightmare in his tent, we make sure the tent flaps are wide open and we sit at the tent door to comfort him...most important, we show and discuss "It happened to me" and remind the parents to discuss the pamphlet that comes in the front of all Scout handbooks... and then we get back to the original topic... Question: If the "adjusting" of the "program" can be "good" or "bad", can anyone tell me about any "impaired" Scouts (pick an impairment: visual, wheelchair, mental/emotional, MD, Polio, etc.) who were awarded their Eagle and how the "program" was tweaked for them? Was this appropriate? or (shiver) wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Our Troop just had a scout earn Eagle through the process that is available for disabled youth, so I guess one could say we thoughtless adhered to scripted procedure as found in BSA publications, or rather did we thoughtfully adhere to the procedure? In any event I have been asked to speak at the youth's Court of Honor, I have just the poem to end with although I am not sure I will make it through without breaking up Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Now, as a 'temporarily able' person, I would guess that OGEs Scout was required to meet some "officially" adjusted requirements (which means they are "official program") from the "normal" requirements for otherwise "able" Scouts. ? I think such ideas are fascinating. When I see a FC badge on a Scout, I would expect that that Scout would have the same skills and basic knowledge as any other FC Scout. Now, tactilly, I would not expect a blind Scout to be required to identify Poison Ivy in HIS way (touch!), but how would he identify it MY way (visual description?) ? Does one just say "it can't be done" and pass on? Perhaps rubber gloves? FC Scouts of my era needed knowledge of Morse Code and Wig Wag signalling (dot to left= patrol patch, dash to right= troop patch). Not so today. Is this "official adjustment" a bad thing? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 these are the rules for a disabled Scout who wishes to earn Eagle The Eagle Scout rank may be achieved by a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or qualified Venturer who has a physical or mental disability by qualifying for alternate merit badges. This does not apply to individual requirements for merit badges. Merit badges are awarded only when all requirements are met as stated. In order for a Venturer to be an Eagle candidate, he must have achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout. The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be made by a physician licensed to practice medicine, or an evaluation statement must be certified by an educational administrator. The candidate must earn as many of the required merit badges as his ability permits before applying for an alternate Eagle Scout rank merit badge. The candidate must complete as many of the requirements of the required merit badges as his ability permits. The Application for Alternate Eagle Scout Award Merit Badges must be completed prior to qualifying for alternate merit badges. The alternate merit badges chosen must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the required merit badges. When alternates chosen involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician. The unit leader and the board of review must explain that to attain the Eagle Scout rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. The application must be approved by the council committee responsible for advancement, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for the disabled. The candidate's application for Eagle must be made on the Eagle Scout Rank Application, with the Application for Alternate Eagle Scout Award Merit Badges attached. Thats the rules we mindlessly followed Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm really not sure who you are targeting with your comments? Yah, SR540, Im not targeting anyone, eh? Quite the opposite, Im sharin my personal perpectives . Im not fond of targeting people. Isnt that a G2SS violation? You keep advocating tweaks and adaptations to the Scouting program. Advocatin? Nah. Defending? Sure. My theme has been to offer some alternative perspective when someone goes off about One Way. The theme is friendliness, courtesy, and service. Even when we think were right, we must also decide such questions as Is this any of my business? and Whats the kindest and most courteous way to approach it if it is? and What are the possible (unintended) consequences of my approach? Or perhaps just takin a moment to put oneself in the other persons shoes. A second theme is that its impossible to design a national program or curriculum for kids that works perfectly in all its elements all the time everywhere. Cant be done by anybody, no matter how expert (or our schools would be a lot better, eh?). Success of a national program like the BSAs depends on intelligent local adaptations by caring adults, with a healthy dollop of common sense. Messy? Sure. Freedom is messy. But it works a lot better than Soviet-style centralization. A third theme in conjunction with the second is that the way the BSA program is designed and implemented, local adaptations are expected. That is a feature of the BSA program, so that the program materials can best serve the needs and goals of different community organizations and the kids they serve. Thats it. Ive been a scouter at various levels and a commissioner a long time, and Ive never seen two programs that were the same, nor have I seen a single unit anywhere that hasnt adapted the program materials in some way. Success depends a lot more on the personality, commitment, and judgment of the youth and adult leaders than on the program materials, eh? And to be honest, the ones who are the worst of the bunch who rarely work well with kids are the scouters who get officious about the program or some rule or reg. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 OGE, That is fantastic! It's always great to hear when a disabled boy earns Eagle! My son, who is deaf, did it through the normal process. His choice. He had a very emotional Eagle COH. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 evmori: Mega congrats! I hope someone was awarded a "translator" strip for ASL? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 here are pictures of his project, he is the lad with the walker http://www.troop362.com/2006_bt_eagle_project.htm Link to post Share on other sites
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